Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The other one is gonna do it.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: In front of him.
[00:00:04] Speaker A: The other one is gonna do. It's.
[00:00:15] Speaker C: Day four of the trip, and we're on a speedboat enjoying a morning safari. By this point on the expedition, we are well versed in the rhythm of the day. Wake up before sunrise, eat a tasty brazilian style breakfast, load onto the speedboat and explore the many nooks and crannies of the Paraguay river system as we cruise from Casares to Porto Joffrey. Today we are in Cayman paradise. We stop and watch countless males show off their dominance through territorial displays. To remind all other caymans who around here is boss.
The diversity of life in the panzanil is mind blowing. So many birds, reptiles, mammals. I had already lost count of the total number of species we had seen, and we still had a week left.
Now that we had been here for a few days and were immersed in the ecosystem, my mind was beginning to reel with questions.
What is the conservation story of the region? And why is the Pontzanau so special?
To answer these questions, I thought, who better to ask than the people who live and work here?
[00:01:29] Speaker B: My name is Frederico Fred Cremo, as people call me.
[00:01:34] Speaker C: Fred is my group's expedition leader. We met him on day two during a lunch stop after flying from Sao Paulo to Cuyaba, driving in a transit van and stopping somewhere halfway in between for food. Yes, it was a very long travel day.
Fred is a tall man, probably around six foot, six foot one, if I had to guess, with black hair flowing down to his ears, a little bit of gray peeking through, and tan skin for many, many hours in the sun.
Fred told me his story and how he came to the pantanell. When was the first year you came.
[00:02:10] Speaker D: Down to the pantanell?
[00:02:12] Speaker B: I started to work in Pantanel 98.
[00:02:14] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:02:14] Speaker D: So you've been coming for a long time. A long time, yeah. That's amazing.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: And my story always was in love with the nature. Since I was young. And when I was about 20 years old, maybe 2021, a friend of mine gave me one opportunity to work or doing trips, playing with kids. I thought it was nice. I begin like this, and then in a couple of weeks, I start to work with recreation.
And in about maybe two months, that I start in Sao Paulo. That was. I used to live. They started to work with kids, what we call educational tourism. So we took the kids from school to teach them something outside of school. And usually we have three professionals. One was someone that played with the kids. That was me and one biologist and one guy that talked about history or about geography. So this time, I learned a lot with these guys, and I say, wow, that's fun. So I did a course to be a guide.
And because I knew how to speak English, I started to work with dutch people traveling around Pantanau. And then the first trip that I did in Pantana, I said, wow, that's fun. I'm here working, like, my friends are starting to work now. An office with suits, like, taking 3 hours of traffic jam every day. Am I showing birds for the people, show animals. I never stop. So I got totally in love, and today I work as a guide.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: I then asked Fred to explain what the pantanao is and why it's so special.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Well, pantanao stays in Brazil. Bolivia and Paraguay is the biggest wetland in the world. It's a very huge place. About 85% of this land is in Brazil, and it's two big provinces in Brazil, Somato Grosso and Matugos du Su.
And I believe this is one of the easiest place in the world to see wildlife. Everything is very flat, a lot of lights. Who likes to take pictures in perfect place. And we have a lot of wildlife. We see a lot of big birds. We saw a lot of big birds. Big birds.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: Holy crap.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Like the storks and a lot of wildlife. We have the big mammals, like the jar, it's the giant anteater. We have giant otters. We have wow, masteers, we have tapiers. We have a very nice wildlife here.
Like I say, it's life and death all the time. So you can see birds attacking fish eating fish, snakes attacking. You can see a lot of very busy here all the day. So you can see a lot of action, a lot of behaviors.
[00:05:01] Speaker C: During our seven days of cruising down the Paraguay river, we passed through several biologically important areas, including the Taima Ecological Reserve, Pantana National park, the MLR mountain chain, and meeting of the River State park. The Taima Ecological Reserve was the first protected area that we encountered. Established in 1981, Taima's purpose is to, quote, preserve and conserve for scientific and educational purposes this important portion of the Pontinell biome, end quote.
The area reminds me of the Okovengo delta in Botswana. Twisting, turning water channels that meander around tall grasses, bordered by river banks and full of life. We see countless spectacle cayman, a close relative of the alligator. We also saw our first marsh deer, an endangered species of deer close in size to North America's whitetail deer, with tawny red fur and permanently black legs. To my untrained eye, the taima looks like it's thriving. But little did I know, almost this entire area was burned to the ground in 2019.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: And 2019, 100% of this park was burned.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Everything.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: So we're going to see a lot.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Of the trees like this, the dead trees. Fire here with milk both sides, but inside was destroyed.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: Being as entrenched as I am in the conservation world, I had heard about Brazil's raging fires. Fire is a natural phenomenon in the pantanal, but not like in recent years.
In 2020, 30% of the brazilian pantanal burned, or around 50,000 biome. Yes, 2020 was a hell of a year for humanity and the panzanao. After the blaze was squelched, scientists began to research the causes of the unprecedented level of destruction. What they discovered was a perfect storm.
Leading up to 2020, the panzanao was experiencing an extreme drought due to reduced transport of warm, humid air from the Amazon and exceedingly high marine heat waves from the northeast Pacific Ocean. Rainfall in 2020 was down 26%, a level that hadn't been reached since the 1980s. Additionally, an increase in land clearing for cattle ranches removed vegetation crucial for water retention, which led to an increase in runoff and reduced soil moisture.
So what sparked the flame? While the panthenile was experiencing an unprecedented drought, the fire patterns could not be fully explained by natural phenomenon, especially since 35% of the burned area had never been burned before. Haytor Evangelista, in his 2022 paper, found that 60% of the fire outbreaks were concentrated at distances less than 5 km from roads, waterways and railways, and that 80% was concentrated at distances less than 10 km from areas with human activities. Showing a direct correlation between human activity and the devastating fires eventually stuck concluded that only 16% of the fire was due to natural causes, like lightning. The inferno was sparked months before the rainy season began, allowing the fire to rage unchecked.
Not only did miles upon miles of vegetation burn, but an estimated 17 million vertebrates were directly killed by the fires. So much life lost.
[00:08:52] Speaker D: How has this area changed since the time you started coming here?
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Well, that's a sad part. When I started, I think was much more animals that today I see a decrease of the animals every year a little bit, but I still think it's pretty amazing. There's a lot of animals as we can see, but before we could see more, I don't know how it's possible. We've been here a couple of days, but how it's possible. But in some places, it was easier to see a couple of animals, couple birds. We see much more quantity of the same species of the birds. Now we see less.
We have a lot of damage with fire damage, with people growing and want to have more is unfortunately in Brazil. We see this a lot in Amazon and Pantanao and other areas in Savannah, brazilian savannah that we call cejado. The agro business in Brazil is very big, so they want to grow, grow, and unfortunately, nature is in the middle of it.
[00:09:56] Speaker D: Do you by chance know then, how much of the pontanal has been developed? Like how much habitat loss has there been here?
[00:10:04] Speaker B: I don't have this number by head, but pantana is more or less very preserved. In Matugrosu, you cannot have like soya plantation or mice or corn plantation here, but in Matugosu du Sue, you can. So in some places, they are destroying the Pantanao area to plant it. Unfortunately, it's not good for planting because you have a rain season that rains a lot, so everything is float. So it's not every crop that we work here.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: Thankfully, right before my very eyes, I saw life recovering. I was reminded how resilient nature can be when we give her space and time to recover.
On day five of our expedition, we encountered an exciting and unexpected set of events. We were deep in the pantanao. We hadn't seen another tourism boat in days. Just a few fishing boats here and there.
Seemingly out of nowhere, a mountain chain appeared in the distance. We had officially reached the Amalar mountains. Sitting on the border with Bolivia. The Amalar mountains run for 80, climbed just under 1000 meters into the sky. These mountains were in stark contrast to the unending flatness of the Pontineau, adding to their grandeur.
On this day, we were scheduled to take a short morning boat ride to see some water lilies and then enjoy an afternoon on the boat cruising along the mountain chain. Little did we know nature had a different set of plans, at least for the first part of the day.
With the water level slowly decreasing, more and more seagrasses were growing throughout the waterways, slowly but surely choking the path forward. And then the boat stopped.
[00:12:04] Speaker D: So we are currently deep in the pantadal right now, right in front of the Amalar mountain range. And the hyacinths have grown up so high that we are stuck. And this cool bow is coming in to push him out of the way with that grass breaker in front. So we have icebreakers, apparently, grass breakers. So we are on the top of the boat here, waiting. There are some people that are going to go fishing. Hopefully they'll catch some piranhas for us and maybe have them for lunch.
But yeah, the adventure is real.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: While you should always expect something unexpected to happen during an expedition, I had no clue it'd be in the form of a blocked waterway. Our team immediately went into action. The captain called the navy to bring a grass pushing ship in to remove the strip of water hyacinth. While the crews went to work clearing the path, we hopped in our speedboat to see what was out and about along the base of the mountains. To our delight, we spotted Azarza's capuchins swinging through the trees, foraging for food, green iguanas, giant amoeba lizards, and ancient writings carved into stone. We even crossed a border post into Bolivia, although I still don't count that as visiting Bolivia. After a few hours of grass pushing and boat pulling, our mothership was through and we were back on course. I loved spending the afternoon on the top deck, watching the mountains pass by and looking through my binoculars to see what wildlife was out and about.
That afternoon, we loaded into our speedboat for a different set of activities. Since Fred had been guiding in the area for so long, he had made lasting relationships with a small, remote village near Amalar. We landed at their boat dock and piled onto the riverbank. Beside us was the community's version of a school bus, a sturdy yellow boat with a roof that drove around the area every morning and afternoon to take kids to and from the schoolhouse. We walked up to the village's raised platform boardwalk to visit said schoolhouse. There were two rooms, the first one for younger kids and the second one for older students, grades five through nine.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: I'm going to ask how many people see the jaguar.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Okay, everybody.
Most of the children had never met an outsider before and were curious about why we were there. When Fred told them we had traveled all the way from America to see jaguars, they couldn't believe it. Why would these crazy people spend thousands of dollars and travel thousands of miles to see a cat that lived in their backyard? The idea seemed absurd to them after the visit Fred shared with us that he felt compelled to engage with these kids and show them that they could become guides, too, show them proof that their home and their wildlife was valuable, that they could stay here and make a living without having to move to a city and get a job. After all, look at how far these Americans had traveled to visit their homeland. It warmed my heart to hear this was their land and their heritage. And if the area's jaguars were to live on in perpetuity, we needed these children to care.
We said our goodbyes to the kiddos and met one of the village leaders, an innovative woman that had started several community projects to bring income to the village, especially for women. She showed us the handiwork of one of their projects, beautiful crafts made out of water hyacinths. The perfect opportunity for us to give additional support to the community outside of the donations we had already given for them taking the time to host us.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: She's the leader from this group of women. It's about five to six women that work here with the water hashaint, and they dry the water hashin to make as a souvenir or art.
This is a way that they figure out to get some money extra for the community. So this is about 120 people that live here. Basically, they live by fishing. So most of them are professional fishermen. So the women sometimes also or help to get the baits or help fishing as well. But some of the women that didn't know what to do, they start to do this project. So I think, very interesting to always stop here when I have clients, at least for you guys. Know, a little bit of this difficult reality of people that live here so far away. Like the doctors come here every three months. Wow. Three to three months is a doctor that come here if you need to go to the hospital with the small boats, about 6 hours.
[00:17:03] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: So it's a reality that's a little bit different from us. If you need to shop 6 hours from here. Okay. Doesn't have shopping here, doesn't have store here. So basically, they leave what they plant, what they fish.
[00:17:20] Speaker C: I was blown away by this tenacious woman and her desire to give community members a better life.
Following, we met with one of the last surviving members of the Guato tribe.
The Guato are native to these marshlands and were river nomads, spending most of their time in expertly carved canoes, fishing, hunting, and taking residence on islands throughout the Pantanal. They were first contacted by Europeans at the beginning of the 16th century, but were infrequently documented in preceding records due to the panzanal's remote location and the Spanish's lack of interest in the area.
However, contact intensified in the later half of the 16th century as tribal people became a target for the slave trade for Spanish America by the conquistadors.
Later in the early 18th century, explorers from Sao Paulo discovered gold along the Cucipo and Cuyaba rivers, intensifying contact between indigenous people and foreigners.
The increase in exposure caused the vicious spread of disease amongst the natives, killing countless and miles upon miles of their land. Was taken.
Despite centuries of hardship, the Guato persevered and migrated into deeper, less accessible regions of their immense territory. To keep their people alive.
Insua island became their stronghold.
Next. In the 19th century, the government announced that the panzana was uninhabited, ignoring indigenous people's existence to attract farmers and further expand the cattle ranching industry.
War in the region during the late 18 hundreds also caused a massive smallpox outbreak, decreasing the Guato's numbers even further.
By the 1940s and 50s, most of the remaining Watto people were pushed out of their homeland and relocated to small villages nearby.
Their tribe was officially declared extinct.
However, the story began to change. Thankfully, in the late 1970s, the Guattus were rediscovered by a nun, and organizations supporting the indigenous cause band together to help the Guato fight to reclaim their homeland. The effort paid off. In 2018, the brazilian government announced the demarcation Abaya dos Guato as indigenous lands. Some 19,000. Huge win for the Guato people.
And here we stood with one of the last Guato tribesmen living a relatively traditional life. Our 82 year old host welcomed us with a smile and showed us around his humble home, a two bedroom brick shack without plumbing, electricity that he didn't use, and a bed that was reserved for his mini cats. He woke up with the sun and went to bed. When it set, we saw his handcrafted canoes and the tools he used to live off the land.
Fred was our translator and told us more about his life.
[00:20:40] Speaker A: As you can see, he has a very simple life. It's how he lives here.
He doesn't want to go. He has one brother that lives in casares. To go with the small boats, it takes about six to 7 hours.
He just go over there once every two or three months to get the money from the retirement that he buy a couple of things and he bring back. Always when we stop here, we bring something for him to eat. And last week he was fishing and he figured out that someone was looking at him was a jar.
[00:21:10] Speaker D: Oh, my God.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Come inside of the house, lock him out and wait a little bit. The energy power is over there. From a university. Last year they came here, they put in the community also. They put also in the national park.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: It's a part of the project of university.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: But it's very interesting. He doesn't use actually the food that he gets. He dry out in the sun. So cayman. Sometimes you come here and there's a lot of like, caymans or capuvaras meat dry in the sun with salt.
[00:21:39] Speaker C: Next, Fred picked up a long, smooth piece of wood with a sharp metal spear at the end. He told us what our host used it for.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: This one is called the zagaya. So the zagaya is a weapon that he used to hunt kaimans, to hunt capivaras. If the jaguar come here, he can.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Because with this you get very far from the jaguar.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: And so he used this for hunting like the. So usually he goes in the river and hunt.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: He also had a hilarious sense of humor.
[00:22:19] Speaker D: Do you have any children?
[00:22:20] Speaker A: Satan Criesa no.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Jacazo, sir.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: Cazo.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: No problem.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: He said the woman doesn't like him.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: He said that he already had five.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: Women that say that once you stay with him, but all them run away.
[00:22:39] Speaker D: So he thinks they don't like him.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: So definitely he's not very good with.
[00:22:47] Speaker C: The longer we stayed and the more I understood his way of life, the more appealing it became.
Nothing else mattered but what we were experiencing in this gorgeous place at this moment, with no distractions from the rat race of 21st century.
[00:23:07] Speaker D: I used to think that lives like these were so unappealing. But the older I get, I don't blame him for not wanting to leave. To be honest, I'd want to be out here too.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: It's amazing. It's a different life.
[00:23:18] Speaker D: Yeah, it's been nice being disconnected.
[00:23:23] Speaker C: After visiting for about 30 minutes, we said our goodbyes and climbed back down the riverbank into our boat. Our host smiled so bright and waved as we drove away. I will never forget that smile.
Next, we visited Pansana National park. This place was turkeit heaven. The air was a cacophony of noisy birds bashing from tree to tree in small flocks. We photographed treading barefaced carousels, their gorgeous quests blowing in the breeze between two park buildings. We watched three black vultures settle a violent dispute over what we will never know.
Much to my surprise and delight, I also spotted a pair of resting great horned owls above the park headquarters. I still don't understand how they were able to rest with such noisy neighbors. There was a massive communal parakeet nest right below them.
Here we met the park's only ranger, Zelma. She had been working here for 25 years and was responsible to patrol and protect the park's 520 sq mi of area.
Her home was a six to eight hour boat right away, and so she stayed at the park for 15 to 20 days at a time before going back.
She clearly loved what she did and she loved this park.
The only other people we met were firemen who were on standby for the next fiery outbreak on day six, we had no clue that the dynamics of the trip were about to change.
The day was hot and roasting. The whole trip had been much warmer than the average for this time of year, and this morning was extra special.
The heat pushed most of the wildlife out of view, and the group was feeling cranky, and I certainly did not blame them.
We returned to the mothership early for a reprieve. Thankfully, the heat was about to be a minor inconvenience in the excitement to come.
Our mothership cruised all afternoon and parked around 02:00 p.m. We packed our gear, loaded into the speedboat, and set out. After ten minutes of driving, we slowed down and turned right into a carisho off of the main river. The sign at the entrance stated that this was a protected area and that no hunting or fishing was allowed. All the excitement in the boat began to build.
Then a few minutes later, we spotted our first jaguar, a younger male around the size of a full grown female jaguar. Fred told us his name was Ozaro. We moved upriver in sync with him until he disappeared into the brush.
Shortly after spotting Ozaro, we found a group of boats packed in one spot and looked in the direction of their boughs. There on the riverbank was a gorgeous female jaguar, seemingly posing and watching her admirers. We approached with camera shutters going off like mad. She lazily walked along the riverbank, looking for a place to swim across.
This was Patricia, the current matriarch of the region. Her teeth were swollen, alerting us of her motherhood. I wondered, where were her cubs hiding, and were they safe with the other male walking about?
Just as quickly as we spotted her, she swam across the carisho into the water hyacinths and disappeared from field.
Finally, in a matter of an hour, we had seen not one but two jaguars.
Their behavior was drastically different from the jaguar's elusive reputation. They were calm and not bothered by human presence in the slightest. I've been on multiple safaris and have seen countless african big cats. Was I viewing a south american jaguar or a well known leopard in the Serengeti? When we left the carisho and headed back to the mothership, I wondered, why were jaguars in other parts of the Pontinell skittish and avoided people at all cost?
The taima boasts the densest population of jaguars in the region. So then why did I only catch the spotted butt of a jaguar dashing away from the riverbank? Fred also gave me insight into the causes of their different behavior here in.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: Pantanao the fishing tourism is also very common. So for the fishing tourism, you need the living baits, so they need to have hunters for these baits to sell for the fishermen. And these guys need to get these fishing baits close to the water.
So they need to scare the jaguars because they are very close to the jaguars. So in the areas where there's a lot of fishing people and a lot of people hunting for baits, it's very hard to see the jaguars because they scare them. And this part where we are now is protect the area and it's basically protect for all the habitats, for the fish, for a lot of animals here.
So we cannot have these bait hunters here. So that's other reason also why the jaguars here are so used to people. Because the people that are here, they not scare the jaguar, they don't try to hunt them, although it's forbidden in Brazil. See, a couple of people want to hunt a jaguar, want to kill a jaguar, they feel proud about it. It's very shame on them. So here, I think that's why it's a paradise for jaguars. I think there's no other place in the world that can see so easy. It's never easy, but you can see so easily jaguars here.
[00:29:18] Speaker C: Over the next two days, we spent every morning and afternoon in the park looking for jaguars. In addition to Ozado and Patricia, we found jaju, Pishana and the most gorgeous cat I've ever seen in my life, Madrosa.
During our evening boat safari on day seven, we had a very special sighting that I'll never forget, an encounter with a giant otter family outside of jaguars. I was most excited about the chance to observe giant otters on this trip. In case you haven't heard much about this species, here's a quick rundown. Giant otters are the largest musculid species, growing up to 6ft in length and weighing up to 70 pounds, or 32 kg. These otters were heavily hunted throughout the 19 hundreds and reached numbers as low as twelve in 1971. The formation of sightes in 1973 led to a significant drop in the number of otters that could be hunted each year. Although the otter pelt market never fully died out and their numbers slowly bounced back fast forwarding to today, giant otters are listed as endangered and are facing a maelstrom of threats. Given that these muscleids specialize in hunting fish, giant otters face significant persecution, largely stemming from the perception that they play a role in the decline of fish stocks. They're also extremely sensitive to pollution and habitat destruction. With mining activities and habitat destruction increasing throughout their range, giant otters are slowly but surely losing their homeland. To make matters worse, their late sexual maturity and complex social structures also make replacing the population difficult.
Only the alpha pair in a group breeds, and young otters looking to start a family of their own must encounter another sexually mature otter willing to leave its family and then find a suitable territory.
Talk about an uphill battle.
And so spending the evening with this giant otter family was extra special.
Originally, we heard them calling to each other as they were hunting for fish near the river banks of the Picari River. I had no clue until watching several giant otter families along the trip that while the group hunts together, they do not share the food they catch. Once they catch a fish, they rise to the surface, holding the fish between their webbed feet and quickly, and I mean quickly, chow down. Other otters come up to them and ask for a bite vocally, but the owner of the fish never gives them anything. It's just pretty funny to watch.
We were able to deduce that we were watching the Picari group thanks to the monitoring work of the Proieto Arianis, a project dedicated to monitoring the giant otters of this regen. The Arianis team identifies individual otters by their unique neck patterns, as no two otters have the same white neck patch.
Thanks to their simple and informative otter guidebook, we didn't need much fancy tech to figure out which family we were watching.
It made me feel even closer to them.
After they were done hunting, the family gave us the biggest surprise of all.
The adults crossed the river right in front of us and began calling.
Suddenly, four small pups came dashing out of their steep riverside den and plopped into the water.
All of the adults doted on the young ones, grooming them, playing with them, and even giving them swim lessons.
As the sun began to set, the adults grabbed each pup around the neck and carried them up into the den. Hilariously, as soon as the adult would turn around to grab another pup, the first pup would shimmy to the second den entrance and fall off back into the water.
They clearly were not done with their swim lessons. We watched several rounds of this, laughing each time a pup outwitted their caretaker. We left the group as the sun was setting, stoked for the day's events.
Clearly, nature tourism had transformed this area. We had seen countless boats jockeying for the best view of the riverbanks, and I knew each visitor paid a hefty price for the privilege of having this experience.
I wanted to know more about the growth of tourism in the pontanom. So I turned to Fred and asked, how has tourism and its influence on local communities changed over the years?
[00:34:10] Speaker B: I know a farm that's very interesting, actually. It's a farm that you're going to visit after. It's called San Francisco farm, that they have, like, more or less 60% is rice plantation, and also they can have cattle, and about 40% is tourism, because in the other area that we need to preserve in Brazil, you have a certain percentage of the land that you need to preserve in pantana. So they start to work with tourism in this area, and now 50% of the incoming come of the tourism, sometimes 60. So sometimes they have more money coming from the tourism than the crops. So it's very interesting as a good example so maybe the other farmers can do. We see a lot of farmers becoming, like most of the hotels here, the lodges that we have in Pantanao were cattle farms, and now they work with both of them because they realize tourists can bring a lot of money and preservation and as much preserves as the area, more tourists will come.
So tourism has a very positive impact so far in Pantanao and is growing like the jaguar observation is amazing the last ten years, how much grow. We were talking yesterday with Abby, that's one of the coordinator is the coordinator of the project, the jaguar identification project, and I think it was 2016, 2018 was $7 million in jaguar tourism, and I believe since 2000. And I think 1718 grows a lot. We're in 2023, and we have much more boats. A lot of people coming. They pay a lot of money to be here. It's not a very cheap place because it's very far away from everything.
So I think it's a good news for us, good news for the jaguars. They keep surviving. You see how many jaguars we saw in few days that we are here. So it's amazing place still is an amazing place, even though it's less animals, but it still is a very good amount of animals.
[00:36:20] Speaker D: I guess that this is almost a hard question to ask because obviously you're brazilian and you've been to lots of places, and you understand the politics of this area, and you're in these wild places, and you've seen how much it's changed. What do you think the pantanal's trajectory is on? Do you think it's going to be preserved? Do you think it's going to have a lot more pressure before it's preserved?
What do you think is going to happen?
[00:36:46] Speaker B: I think the growing of the tourism now is very positive for Pantanao from the conservation of Pantanau because every time now, especially if the social media is very easy, you're here. I'm sure that you already post something about the jairus in your social media.
[00:37:02] Speaker D: I've been talking about this trip for.
[00:37:03] Speaker B: A long time, and I'm sure that everybody that's traveling with us also did it. I saw people sending message for the family. So this is one way that Pantanao will keep preserved because we saw a lot of boats today and yesterday and after, and everybody's doing the same. So I think through social media and today is very fast information.
So they're going to spread this word about it. So they're going to show how Pantanao is beautiful and maybe the people will look a little different. That's what sometimes I told you about the fire in 2019. The government just did something when they figure out that the international community was talking about it, and they say, oops, we need to do something because they see, they know what's happening here. So I think what is positive in the growing of the tourism is we're growing in a good way. So, so far, one or another doesn't work very good, but most of them are working very good. And I think this will bring positive thoughts for Pantanao, good for conservation. As much picture of jaguar we spread around the world, people want to see the jaguar, and then they will know everything else that is in Pantao since the first day. I'm telling Pantanao is an amazing place. The jaguar is amazing animal. Come on. It's breathless, but you have a lot of beautiful birds, a lot of insects, a lot of things. It's very nice. You see fishing pumping out from the.
[00:38:39] Speaker D: Water this morning that was so cool.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: So it's nice. I think it's a different place if you want to enjoy wildlife. It's a very cool place to be. And that's, I think, in many places in the world, not just in Pantanao, is one of the ways to conserve, to preserve nature is showing how beautiful it is, because if nobody knows what the jaguar is, they don't care about it. As soon as they know what the jaguar is, how beautiful it is, what's his behavior, how he does, they start to care about it. Maybe they will adopt a jaguar or, I don't know, help. Somehow the projects help coming here. So I think tourism is a big way to save nature and all the world, like here in Africa, doesn't matter where.
If we travel, we send pictures, if we talk about it.
Then we make more people to know, more people to talk about it, more people to fight for it.
[00:39:46] Speaker C: While I had learned so much during my first seven days in Brazil, I still had so many questions, especially about jaguars. How did this population become habituated? Why did it all start?
Considering the number of jaguars that I saw in only a few days, what were the cat's social dynamics? And most importantly, are they in trouble?
Luckily, while I was in Porta Joffrey, I met the perfect person to answer my burning questions.
In the next episode, we'll explore the lives of the Pantanell's jaguars with Abby Martin, founder of the Jaguar ID project.
