[00:00:00] Speaker A: What are some of the worst scenarios you can imagine while scuba diving?
I know it's not a fun thought experiment, but as we've all experienced in this line of work, things can and do go wrong in the field.
Welcome to rewildology, the nature podcast that delves into the human side of conservation, travel and rewilding our planet. I'm your host, Brooke Mitchell, conservation biologist and adventure traveler.
Today's conversation is the third episode in the super fun mini series called Conservation chronicles Tales from the Field, where I sit down with a former guest to explore the most unforgettable tales etched into their memory.
The next storyteller in this series is Andrew Buzziak, published conservation photographer and filmmaker.
In this conversation, Andrew shares scary mishaps while diving and what he learned to avoid dangerous situations in the future.
He also gives us a sneak peek into the new and very exciting documentary hes working on, which, no surprise, involves diving in some of the most extreme conditions.
Once youve enjoyed Andrews stories, scroll back through the archives, episode 141 to learn more about his latest travel wildlife docuseries called Edge of Frame and urban Wildlife conservation.
By the way, in case you missed it, we recently announced our 2024 Earth Day photo contest and I would love for you to join in on the fun Earth Days theme. This year is Planet versus Planet plastic, and we're celebrating by showcasing what our watery ecosystems would look like without plastic pollution.
So the theme of our contest is thriving freshwater and marine ecosystems. If you have any images that fall into this category, follow the link in this episode's description or head on over to the website to learn more about the contest and enter your photo for a chance to win an exclusive podcast episode just for you.
The rewadology team will select the top three photos and then the rewadlogy community will vote on the winner. So stay tuned for that.
Alright everyone, please enjoy this campfire conversation with Andrew.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: So Andrew, we are sitting down today to tell stories. Imagine we have a campfire right now with a beer and nice flannels on, maybe some slippers. And I want to hear some epic stories. So first tell me where are we going? Take me. Take me to where the story begins.
[00:03:05] Speaker C: Well, we could actually go like, we could take our campfire there because it starts sort of on a beach rocky outcrop on the shores of Lake Ontario. And it's a good spot. But there are good spots where you can, like in Toronto where I am, you can actually have like little secret bonfires at night around the beach. Just don't tell anyone. It's it's super fun. So I'll take you there at about, I think this is about 06:00 a.m.
In in, like, early October a couple years back. And for your listeners that haven't seen the Great Lakes or experienced them, you. Yeah, they are great lakes, and they're massive. Like, they're so great that it's hard to imagine you're standing on the shore of a lake because usually you can't see to the other side unless you're in, you know, a bay or one of the, you know, one of the kind of pinched corners. They're absolutely massive. There are cruise ships on the Great Lakes. There are tankers, and there are all sorts of, like, famous wrecks. It's. It's crazy. I mean, they are, they are little inland oceans. When you're standing there, that's what it feels like. So when I wanted to learn how to scuba dive, when I wanted to get certified to scuba dive, I was like, oh, you know, it's a great place to do that. The Great Lakes. Like, that's, that's where I live. Let's. Let's do it here. And there are all sorts of dive shops around the Great Lakes. Georgia Bay has, which is just off the Great Lakes. Georgia Bay has some of the best, like, shipwreck diving and cold water diving in the world. Like, it's famous people, people travel for it. So where I am, down in, down in Toronto, there are a couple spots where people go get their open water certifications before they head down to Mexico or wherever, where they want to do their, you know, their fun warm water diving. So I wanted to dive into kind of my storytelling repertoire. I wanted to be able to take photos and videos underwater. So I looked for the cheapest course that I could find, which. Yeah, like, saying that, like, you know, at the time, I was like, oh, I'm, like, so smart. I found this great deal, but that wasn't such a good idea.
Yeah.
For anyone that's. For anyone that's done their open water or, like, kind of your intro to dive, you know, the first thing you do after paying is they get you, like, kitted up. So, you know, you go to your dive shop and they get you get you all outfitted. So for reasons that will become clear in a bit, I'm not going to identify this dive shop nor the association. Like, there are different diving associations that can issue certifications. I'm not going to even, like, get into that. But I went to this shop and, like, I'm. I'm not like, I'm not, like, a weird size. Like, I'm not, like, crazy tall or crazy short or anything. Sort of, like, I don't know, in the middle, but they had, like, nothing really fit me, which should have been a giveaway. And everything was ripped. Like, the. The wetsuits that I tried on were ripped, and even though I was, like, in the store, they were wet, which was kind of weird. And the. The BCD, the buoyancy control device, that's the thing that, like, goes on your back. It looks like a backpack and holds your tank in place, and that's what fills up with air, so you can see you can control your buoyancy. That was, like, bleached. Like, sun bleached. And this stuff was like, this gear was old, so that should have been. This sort of should have been a giveaway. So I show up on, like, the rocky shores of Lake Ontario at 06:00 a.m. On this, like, really quite cold fall day. And I look out, I'm like, oh, there's like, there's some chop. Like, there's some waves. I wonder if they're gonna have us do this. So they did, and we went in, and it was about, you know, an hour in the water, just doing some stuff and kicking around and trying different exercises and this and that. And I, you know, despite my gear, I felt cold, but. But comfortable. I'm like, okay, I kind of. I got this. And one of the other sort of, like, triggers that this wasn't maybe an awesome experience is that there wasn't a ton of, like, briefing before we went in, and we went in and sort of did all this, did all this stuff, and, like, came out after, and I was like, oh, that was. That was, like, really great. But, yeah, there was. I had some questions. So the next day, I went back and it was same thing. Get dressed, go in the waters feeling a little more confident. And there were some, like, waves. There were some stuff. Not wave. I shouldn't say waves. There were some, you know, it was. It was just a little. Maybe a little. Yeah, a little more movement than I would have. Would have expected. And I got myself all kitted out, went in, and it was early. So this is a new thing for me. So putting all this gear together is different. It's, you know, it's a new experience. And anyone that, you know, it's like anything, you do it a bunch of times. You get comfortable, but the first couple times you do it, it feels weird.
So I went in the water and went out. And the way that these courses work is there's somebody giving instructions and there's kind of like, then there are smaller groups and there's one person kind of looking after other smaller groups. And the guy looking after the little group I was in just, I don't know, he just wasn't, he wasn't attentive. Like, he wasn't really, wasn't too interested in what we were doing. And it was hard to hear out there what was going on. I kind of knew the exercise, what we were doing. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go underwater and do this thing. And I went down, and I went down and I went down. And I was down far enough where I could look up and still, like, see the sun coming through. But I was, I was a good ways down there. And, you know, my second day ever scuba diving, and I breathed, and if you breathing through regulator, that's what you breathe the air through, it sounds like Darth Vader. So it sounds like this.
That's kind of, that's my best impersonation, like a regulator. So you're breathing in and breathing out. So I breathe in, and then on, like my third breath, it goes like this.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:09:27] Speaker C: And I'm like, huh?
I have no air.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:09:33] Speaker C: There's no air coming in through my regulator.
I look at my gauge. There's a little gauge which tells you how much air is in your tank. And I look and it reads zero.
And my tank had been filled the day before.
And when I put on my tank, I swore that I checked, I know I checked, and it read 3000 psi, which it should be reading. I'm like, huh? This is a crisis. And it was really strange. I had this really long dialogue with myself that must have taken place in like, a really, really, really short time. And my mind was like, hey, you, you like, you see that this is a crisis. Like, you're, you're under the water, there's no one around. Like, you don't have a buddy looking at you. You can't see anybody. Everyone else is probably up at the surface and you're down here and you have no air. And it's like a little bit of a swim up there. It's not like, you know, we're not down 100ft, but you're, you're far enough.
And I, in that moment, I was like, okay, I got a couple options here. One is just to, like, I don't know, panic, which didn't seem like a good option. And then the other option I bring was like, how about you just swim really hard?
And I remember being like, okay, it's weird, I have no air. Like, I'm like, my body really, really wants oxygen. Like, really, really wants air. So I'm like, let's see what I can do here. So I gave, like, two massive kicks with my fins and with my arms. I did the. I did this thing. I wouldn't say it was swimming. It was like, pushing. Like, I was trying to push the water down, and I managed to do that. And, like, the surface was getting closer and closer, but my body was like, this is going to be a photo finish. And I'm like, yeah, it feels like it's going to be a photo finish. And I remember thinking, if I get close to the surface and I black out, I have to use my last breath to, like, throw my arms up so someone can maybe see that. Maybe they can see that at least, like, no, because there are people are nearby. So I, like, I get to the surface and I get out. Like, my head gets out of the water, but it's a little bit rough. So I take a breath and this, like, you know, little bit of, little bit of chop, like, hits my face and this little kind of, like, you know, that wave action sort of, like, hits my face. And I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be a struggle. And I also don't have any air in my, in my buoyancy control device because when this happened, when I ran out, I was going down, so I don't have anything to keep me on the surface. So I managed to give myself another really good kick, get a breath of air, and then orally inflate my BCD. There's this hose that you could blow into. So I blow in really quick, take another breath, blow in, and I'm trying to, like, breathe, not go under, fill this thing. I finally get it filled. I'm like, on the surface and, like, everything's okay. And, like, I'm like, I'm here. This is great. And that whole process was, I don't know, like 30 seconds, right? Like, that whole thing was 30 seconds. And, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is the fear that people have when they scuba dive. It's, it's running out of air, and like, that's, that's, that's the fear.
You know, maybe second after that is like being eaten by a shark or something, but scuba diving. And I'm like, oh, I just, I just ran out of air like that's the. That's the number one thing you don't want to have happen in diving is is running out of air. And I'm on the surface, and I'm like, wow, that was really crazy. I'm like, I can't believe that that happened. So the guy that's supposed to be looking after me sort of flag him over, and I'm like, hey, man, like, like, I don't have any air. He's like, what do you mean you don't have any air? I'm like, I I don't have, like, there's no air in my tank. And he looks at my gauge, and he gets kind of, like, mad. And he's like, well, like, did you have air when you went in? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, were you free flowing? Was there blowing out all over the place? I'm like, no, man. And I'm like. And I kind of turn him, like, in my head. I'm like, why are you. Like, why are you yelling at me? Like, this is. This is on you, man. Like, this is on you. So he kind of spins me around and he opens my tank. He's like, your tank was closed. I was like, well, how is it closed if I was breathing on it? And after some reflection and, like, talking to other people, one of two things happened. So there's this method when you open a tank where you're supposed to open it, like, the whole way and then give it a little quarter turn back. So I think what had happened was I. It, like, it was super early in the morning when I was building my gear, I turned it on and then turned it all the way and then turned it back, that half quarter. And then I think I went back to it and did it again, but the wrong way.
Either that, because I don't remember doing it twice. So either that happened or someone else did that thinking they were helping me. So I later learned that there's, like, the school of thought where it's like, don't do the quarter turn back. Like, don't. Don't. Just open is open. And the reason is for exactly what you experienced. And, like, I think the reason that I'm telling this is, like, I came out of the water kind of, like, blaming myself a little bit for all of that, being like, oh, man. Like, what a crazy thing to have happened. And I had a dive buddy with me who I knew before. He was, like, a friend of mine, but, like, we didn't even really know what a dive buddy should be doing, like, nobody really told that to us. And I kind of was like, huh, this was. And I spoke to him about it after, and we were like, maybe we should, like, look out for each other a bit more. So we had a couple more classes to do. So we went online and pulled up a checklist and, like, let's do this checklist to make sure our stuff's okay. And whatever got my certification, you know, it's just sort of a story I told. And then after that, I got into some very serious diving. Some. I've been doing some since then. I've been doing some high level training with some really, really excellent top level instructors and training at a high level. And now my diving. I'm a pretty, pretty advanced diver at this stage now. And what I kind of gradually learned was what happened to me is indicative of so many problems in the diving industry, in the diving world. And I think this might be relevant to some of your listeners. Cause there might be people out there diving that have had accidents as well, or there are people thinking about getting into it. And it's really, at the end of the day, two things. It's your responsibility to make sure you're safe, because, like, if you're not doing that, then you're in trouble. But, like, there were a lot of rules that were broken by that in that scenario. There are things that shouldn't have happened from the instructor level. And, like, it wasn't. I mean, as much as it was my fault that I went in, in that instance, it was also the fault of the leadership there, the people that should have been looking after me. And I've spoken to other people and this has happened to them. And there's, like, in some of the dive shops, it's like, how much money can we make quickly? How many people can we get in here? How many people can get through the door? And I realized that there's actually a complaints process that you can do that. You can, like, log complaints and, like, talk about these things, but people just don't know, especially in the early stages of diving, and people are embarrassed to, like, talk about their problems or accidents that are happening. We just kind of laugh it off. But it shouldn't. It shouldn't really. It shouldn't be like that. And also, one of the, like, one of the things that this, this was also indicative of is, I think in diving, the best divers and the best dive shops and the best teachers and the best instructors and the best leaders, there's, like, there's got. There has to be this like, degree of compassion. This is a scary thing, and I think this is really true of other sports that or other activities that people in, like, biology might do. So biology is kind of, you know, it's adjacent to a lot of things, like rock climbing and diving and maybe learning how to fly a small plane. And these can all be pretty high risk things that you, like. People teach you these things, and they're scary and they're hard, and you could kill yourself and other people if you don't do it right. And I think a lot of from a teaching level, which is, like, a leadership level, which is what I'm getting into now in my diving, like, you need compassion. I think you need a real, like, serious degree of compassion to. And you need to create an environment where your students are okay to speak up or they're not comfortable, and you give them all the resources and the tools to. To survive. And I didn't have that until later in my diving career where I met compassionate instructors. And it's like, oh, this is different, right? This is different from. From. From what I had experienced. So it was, in a way, I'm very glad that happened early on. Like, I'm glad that was. Was kind of. Kind of part of it. And I hope that.
I hope that hopefully with the Internet and, like, people being able to research stuff, they realize that, like, if you want to get a diving, there is a process to, like, lodge complaints. You know, every dive shop is part of a certification program, and they're part of associations, and, like, you can, like, make complaints and you could advocate for yourself if things are weird or off or whatever. And the best thing you could do, I think, when things don't feel right is just go home. Like, no one has to dive. No one has to climb, no one has to get their pilot's license. If you don't feel comfortable in, like, the situation where you are, listen to that little voice and be like, hmm, I'm gonna go home. Like, you know, this isn't. This isn't a good. A good. A good scenario. I'm just gonna go home and, you know, sure, whatever. We all love having stories and horror stories from the field, and they're fun to tell around, you know, around the campfire and in our, you know, in our cozy flannels. Those stories are great. People love hearing them. But I think we, you know, we got to look out for ourselves and look out for the people around us, because this isn't always, like, a super safe environment, or it can't be, you know, there are. There are hazards once we impose on ourselves and, you know, wildlife and vehicles and weird flights and all this stuff. And at the end of the day, you know, that data might not be worth it. That photo might not be worth it. Just. I don't know. Sometimes you just. You can just, like, go home.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Yeah. People die in nature a lot. Sometimes, unfortunately. Sometimes just by being stupid, it's like, come on, that bison, you know, you didn't need to get that close. You got gored by it. But that is a different example. So one, thank God that you survived. Jesus Christ. I can only imagine the thoughts. I mean, well, you shared with us your thoughts going through your head, but, like, holy shit, that's so intense. Can only imagine that feeling. We were like, and there's no more oxygen. Holy moly.
And so, like, somebody. Let's learn then, from your almost tragic story here. How do we protect ourselves? So, like, let's say I'm not yet dive certified. I would love to, but that's just not something that my stars have aligned for me to go ahead and go do. What should I do as a newbie, like, new newbie do to make sure that I don't possibly that happen, especially during diving classes.
[00:20:37] Speaker C: Absolutely. Like, and it's, like, such a fair question. And unfortunately, like, when we try anything new, we don't even know where to. Where to go or where to start. So I think the biggest thing I would say is if you know a diver that's been diving for a long time, talk to them and they probably have a shop that they can recommend. They also, you know, they also might have, like, some. Some recommendations. Like, hey, like, find a checklist. Like, find.
Find a checklist and do that checklist and be really thorough with that checklist. And I think that would be. I think that would be the number one is just talk to somebody, and if you can't do your research with. With shops and look for, like, look for. Look for little signs. If. If you're in. If you're in North America, that shop should be pristine. Like, you know, there are different places around the world that are, like, have really good shops, but it's not always great to, like, it's hard, like, with supply chains to get stuff in. So if you walk into a shop in North America and it's not looking awesome, get out. Like, that shop should be. Should be immaculate. And the gear that you have, that the rental gear doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be in pretty good shape. Like, it shouldn't be ripped. Everything should, you know, be okay. Everything should fit you. And you're paying like, you're paying for this. So make sure you're getting quality, quality service and quality stuff and just, you know, read around, research around and do. Do what you, you know, do what you would do if you were buying a car. Like, do your research and maybe be a bit of a dick about it. You can ask. You can ask a lot of questions. You could go on and reviews, and maybe if somebody left a review that wasn't great, reach out to them. This is a big deal, right? And, you know, especially if you're going, if you're doing this overseas somewhere, if you're going or somewhere away from home somewhere, you don't. You. You don't know, like, you don't know culture. You don't know all that stuff. Like, do your. Do your research. Do your research into what, what, you know, what accreditation program they're part of. And once again, like, one of the best things you could do is just like, reach out to a diver and ask them, you know, hopefully they're a good diver and we'll look after you. So that's. That's what I would say. For anybody looking to, like to get.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Into it, that's a great tip. And, okay, so having a near death experience could potentially scare the living bejesus out of somebody. And they're like, I'm done. Never again. I don't want to go in the water with this ever again. Snorkeling's a max. We're not doing this ever again. Why did you continue on for having such a scary moment? Why do you think that didn't scare you away from the field?
[00:23:16] Speaker C: Because it felt like such a good learning experience. Like, it felt almost like a weird gift.
And I am.
I am like a ridiculously cautious diver. Like, I am an absurdly cautious diver. There. There are mathematical formulas to build in degrees of safety. So are you. When you get out of the water, do you have a third of your tank left? Do you have half of your tank left? Do you have a quarter of your tank? There's all this math for how you breathe, your breathing rate, the depth you're going, how long you're going to be in there, temperature, all of this stuff. And you could kind of plug in your. Your safety factors, and my safety factors are huge, and, you know, my dives are shorter and shallower because of that, but I want to be doing this forever. And old divers, especially, you know, tech divers, the ones where you're going down you're under there for a long time. You're diving at depths where you're at risk of the bends, which, which happens with, you know, it's called bubble trouble, where gas build up in your body, and it does really bad things to you that the number one way to defeat that is to be, is to be cautious, is to be conservative and to be. To be safe, you know? And I'm like, I'm in that camp. Like, I'm.
I wouldn't say to the degree of, like, degree of, like, paranoia, but I'm a. I'm a safe guy. And, like, I think had I not had that experience, I wouldn't be so cautious, or I would be. I'd be like, oh, yeah, okay. Like, there are rules and there's conservatism and all of that stuff, and, yeah, let's. Let's be safe, of course. But now I'm like, no, no, no, no. Like, let's be safe. Like, and here's why. And here's why. And I feel. I feel like I'm a much better diver. Like. Like, a way better diver because of it. And I see things and, like, little, like, little details, and I don't know if my eye would have been that tuned to those things had I not had that experience. And also, I don't get in the water with just anybody. And one of the first things I did when I sort of saw the wider field of diving, and I'm like, oh, here's. Here's what you can do. Here's how you can advance through training the kind of diver you, you know, we can become right away, I became, what's a self sufficient diver, which is, here are the techniques that you need to dive on your own. And, you know, all the guidebooks, don't, you know, all the training manuals. It's like, don't. Don't dive alone. It's not a good idea. But if you're going to, here's what you should do. And I figure, well, if I can't look after myself and be fully independent, how can I help other people around me? Right? So how can I get out of trouble? How can I mitigate trouble? How can I reduce that? And I figured the safest way for me to dive is into, to always pretend that I'm diving alone, even though I have buddies. There are buddy checks. There are systems of communication underwater. There are checklists. We do.
I go in pretending that I'm diving alone, and that way, if I can look after, if I have no worries about myself, I am way in, like, a way better shape to help those around me. So that incident that I spoke about running out of air, having my tank shut off, I think has informed so much of me what I do. And it's just giving me this indication of, like, yeah, it can go wrong. It can go very wrong in ways that you, like. You. You don't even. You can't even imagine. And, like, if anything can go wrong, it can go wrong, and eventually it will go wrong. So let's. Let's try to mitigate all of that.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: So smart. Plan ahead. It's amazing.
[00:26:52] Speaker C: Plan ahead. Plan ahead.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Being a little. Just neurotic about it, a little OCD. Checklists really do help all those things.
[00:27:03] Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: And we love to stay connected, of course. And you are using your dive experience to do something incredible. And I want to use this space. Just share with me. Share with everyone listening. What is this big dive project that you're working on right now?
[00:27:29] Speaker C: This time last year, I started talking to this awesome liminologist called Andy Bromberger, and he's a lakes researcher. Liminologists, they do lakes, and he's like, he's mister Great Lakes. There was a cover story on that geo a year or so ago, and he was the guy, like, he was the guy in that story. So I was talking to him about invasive species in the Great Lakes. And, you know, I'm like, ah, it's kind of, like, related to my urban wildlife stuff. I wanted to kind of, like, take my storytelling underwater. And he was like, yeah, like, invasives, they're here. Like, like, I don't know what you want for a story. There have been a million stories. And I was like, hey, that's great for me to hear, man. I appreciate that. And we're just chatting, and we're getting along well. And I go, hey, man, like, what's the big story? Like, what's the thing right now? Like, what's the thing in your world? And that's. That's such a great journalist question. It's like, hey, like, what's up? Like, what's. What's the thing? Like, what's the thing in your world? What's the thing going on? What's happening? And he was like, oh, well, actually, you know, we always thought, or we just, you know, scientists and, you know, lakes researchers kind of assumed that there wasn't much activity happening under the ice in the winter. When things froze over, things got, you know, in the water there under the ice, got kind of sleepy, and there wasn't a lot of activity. And then we realized that wasn't true. And there's kind of this thing where it's, like, it's hard to get under the ice. It's, like, really dangerous. It's like, it's really difficult to do under ice research. So a couple years ago, there was this icebreaker going through one of the Great Lakes. The bow flipped over a bunch of ice. It was this icebreaker smashing the ice, and this ice turned upside down. And this researcher looked down, and it was like a shag carpet. And he was like, oh, man, algae's going nuts under there. Algae is really, really active underneath ice. And, you know, they knew that there was algae under there, but I think this degree of productivity, they're like, oh, we have to, like, we have to take a very serious look at this. So over the last couple years, lakes researchers have been trying to get samples, figure this all out. And he's like, yeah, but it's, like, really hard. And I was like, huh? And I just said, well, what if I took a team of ice divers and we went under and got you samples?
And I think Andy would probably kill me for saying this, but I heard him giggle.
I know he giggled. He might deny it, but I, like, heard him giggle. And he was like, yeah, that would be wicked. So, like, fast forward to a couple months later. We had this team assembled. He created these, like, crazy domes, and we had this submersible drill. And unfortunately, last winter was one of the warmest for the great lakes in the winter. So some of, like, some of the worst. For ice coverage, there was a real slog. But finally we got under there, got under the ice of lake Simcoe, which isn't part of the Great Lakes, but it's like, great lakes adjacent.
Went under, did our dive gutter sample. The science worked. And ice diving is really intense. It's like everything's trying to kill you. All your gear, like, all your gear wants to freeze and stop working and, you know, free flow all your air out and blow it out, and you're, you know, hypothermia is a risk. And you're in this dry suit. Even a pin pick pin prick in your gloves can cause you a lot of trouble. Ice diving is, like, really serious stuff. And we're throwing, on top of that, citizen science and filmmaking, and we did this, and we pulled it all off. And this was kind of our trial phase. So I wanted to do this more. I wanted to do this for real.
We just only had a couple days. That's what was kind of in the budget. So I wanted to do a film about this. I wanted to do more science. So I got in touch with the Trebek initiative, which is National Geographic and Canadian Geographic joint partnership, and they're funding it. So it's going to be a Nacho Kangio project that we're going to be going full steam ahead with this winter under the ice, getting samples, making a film, being awesome.
We're going far away. We're not going to be doing this deal great. We're going pretty far north. This is an El Nino year, and who knows what the ice coverage is going to be like. So we want to be somewhere where we're sure we're going to get ice and it's going to be badass and it's going to be super fun and it's going to be really cold and it's going to be an intense chunk of time. But we're going to. We're going to have a lot of time where we're staying out there and cutting through the ice and going for prolonged dives under there and getting samples and doing, doing really awesome, awesome science. And I'm so thrilled to be a part of this. You know, I'm. I'm a photographer, I'm a filmmaker. I'm not a scientist. But jumping into this role of citizen scientist is so wicked and so much fun. And our team's phenomenal. And, like, from the second the chainsaw hits the ice to us, you know, plunging in, going out there, you know, with the ice above us and getting the samples and, you know, running these spectrometers under there and all these cool gizmos and gadgets and helping scientists that are doing phenomenal work but aren't, you know, aren't ice divers. It's amazing. It's like so many people coming together, the dive team, the film team, the scientists, the researchers, the techs, the lab technicians, all the, you know, the DNA analysis, all this stuff that's happening is so rad. And it's one of the coolest things that I've ever been a part of. And I feel like this is the kind of thing if, like, I knew that this was a possibility when I was in high school, I would have worked a lot harder to, like, you know, as opposed to just barely passing science, which I did, I would have been like, yeah, I want to be a scientist. Because you could go under the ice and you could go into volcanoes and you could go to the top of mountains and you could have these crazy adventures in the name of science. And people are paying you to do this. So this is, to me, this is like, this is. This is the definition of, like, we go see for ourselves. And it's. It's fantastic. And I can't wait to get. To get rolling on it.
[00:33:14] Speaker B: So when. That's my next big question. When are you going up there? Is the expedition already planned? Do you have a boat?
[00:33:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So we're gonna be, we're gonna be, we're gonna be there in, um. We're aiming for February slash, march. It really depends on ice coverage. Um, you know, for. For the fact that we're getting these samples from under ice. And you can't just cut holes for this because the second you like, cut a hole and like, pull out a block, the sample's been exposed to air and all this stuff. So it really needs to be captured in this way. And to do this, we have these drills and all this stuff. So we need good ice coverage. And you need good ice coverage to dive to be safe because you're out there with all your gear. So we are kind of just watching the weather and watching different lakes that might be, might be cool. They're all remote, you know, they're all in, you know, in sort of northern Ontario or North ish Ontario. And we're just, we're just watching and we're getting closer as we get. I mean, it's still, you know, kind of as falters into winter. We're watching that and just seeing when the conditions might be right. And then we're gonna figure out our accommodations and flights and transporting all our gear up. We need, you know, we need, we need, we need trucks full of gear. We need all this stuff. We need ice huts, we need heaters, we need chainsaws, we need fuel, we need compressors, we need tanks, we need people, we need food, we need water. And it's. It's been great because we've been. Some of the team members have been in connection with some of the indigenous communities that are there and they have their own local scientists that are going to be kind of embedding with us, hopefully. And it's going to be awesome because having that local knowledge was absolutely nothing better than that. These are really, really good scientists that know the area and some of them have lived there their whole life. So we've got, like, we've got a wicked, wicked team and it's going to be a great adventure.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Holy moly.
That's a huge update. I know in our last episode you weren't able to talk about these things.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: I know. I know.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: You were really able to.
[00:35:10] Speaker C: Cause when we recorded that episode, the application was in and, like, we wanted to do this, but there was no funding in place, so, like, that's the worst. That's like, the kiss of death is like, yeah, I'm gonna do this cool thing. I just. It's never gonna happen. So just, like, once your application's in, shut up. Don't jinx it. And now that it's out, I can, like, yeah, I can talk about it.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: That is fantastic. Oh, my gosh. You will definitely have to keep us posted on just a timeline of all of that stuff so we can follow the adventure. And will you have any way to do any sort of streaming from there? Is there any connection at all or. Or any Elon Starlink satellites or any.
[00:35:50] Speaker C: Way to launch your adventures?
I will be posting, like, tons of stuff. This is a cool project because I want this to be like, whether it works or it doesn't. Cause things sometimes don't work. I want to be really, like, sharing this as we go. So, you know, through my instagram, as always, Andrew underscore Budsiak is where all that stuff is going to go out. You know, photos, videos, whatever we, whatever we have is going to go out through there. And I want to just really keep, you know, bring people along for this, for this adventure and, and, and share what we're grabbing in the field and what's happening and all this stuff along the way. And if, you know, you don't see a post, that means it's been a terrible day and I'm frustrated and don't want to post. And then there's this flood of posts when things go well, that's how it goes. But that's kind of, that's sort of, that's. At this stage, that's what I'm. Yeah, that, that's what it's gonna be. It's gonna be out through my instagram, and then there's gonna be a film at the end of all this. You know, we're making a big grand doc, and there's gonna be academic papers and all of that stuff at quite a high level and some, like, phenomenal data as well from this. But my side of things is that film, and I'm excited about that.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: Maybe we could do a, you know, like a film release watch, like some sort of film watch.
[00:37:03] Speaker C: That would be, that would be a, that would be a blast, a live stream.
[00:37:07] Speaker B: Maybe all of us could come together and have a live stream of the launch or something. That would just be unbelievable. It would be so cool.
[00:37:15] Speaker C: Isn't it fun? We can do those things. Like, isn't that fun?
[00:37:17] Speaker B: It's amazing.
[00:37:18] Speaker C: Share projects.
[00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it's so cool. It's like just how connected we are now. We can literally do a film watch from anywhere in the world together if we just pick a good time zone. Like join.
[00:37:32] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:37:33] Speaker B: Oh, yes. So, okay, so definitely keep us posted on that so that we can stay up to date on that. But let's go back to your former episode, your former episode, all about urban wildlife. I'm curious, do you have any special stories from that series that maybe we could just tie it all together and you can share with us?
[00:37:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I think animal stories, like, there's just such an allure about them. Like, you're out there in the wild and, you know, people love that, hearing about that sort of thing. But I think in reality, like, it's, unless you're doing something dumb, it's pretty rare to have, like, I think, like, a negative encounter with an animal. Like, 99% of the time, it's just like, oh, look, there it is. And they're doing their thing and, you know, we're doing our thing as biologists and photographers, but sometimes, sometimes things go amiss and, you know, that's just nature being nature, and sometimes it's the part of the human and then sometimes just the animal being the animal. So, um, like, less, less than a kilometer from where I am right now in, in Toronto, there's this amazing green space, and it's all built up on the side, but there's this great, like, chunk of, of, like, really dense forest. Like, it's, it's, it's tricky to get in there. It's tricky to get around. I don't go there too often because I always come out, like, scratched and beaten up. But I was, I was in there a couple, I was in there a little while ago, about, about two years ago now, and I had my camera and I was kind of walking through and just, it was a nice day and it was like midday, and I wasn't expecting to see too much. And then from somewhere, there was a little hill. From somewhere I heard this, like, bounding, like the sound of something kind of jumping down. And I know what a deer sounds like, I know what a squirrel sounds like. And I'm like, what was that? Like, that was really weird. Like, what just ran down that? And I kind of saw this, like, flash out of the corner of my eye. I'm like, what was that?
And I couldn't quite figure it out. And then I hear this, like, this yipping, and I'm like, ah, I know what that is. That's a coyote. And they're so good at camouflage. I'm like, where are you? Where are you? And it just kind of walked out right in front of me. And the coyote was like, hey, man, we gotta talk.
Get out of here. And as I mentioned, I think in the last episode, I really like coyotes, and I know a good amount about them. Awesome. Awesome. And, you know, like, I was right away, I knew what was happening. So it's me and this coyote facing me, and the coyotes yipping. They don't really bark. They have this kind of pathetic yip thing. But it's, you know, it's pretty intimidating coming from, coming from that mouth. And it's slowly walking towards me, yipping.
And when this happens, if this happens in a park or something, right? Someone's walking a dog, this behavior happens. That's when people are like, oh, the coyote was trying to eat me and my dog. No, that's not what's happening in that moment. So this coyote's yipping at me, and I start moving backwards, and it kind of starts moving backwards with me. And what this process is being, is called, is being escorted. So that coyote would have had a puppy the area, and it was telling me, get out of here. Like, I'm walking you out. I'm showing you, with my, my vocalizations and my body language where I need you to go right now so we don't have to have any trouble. So I've got camera. I'm kind of going back. I'm going back snapping. You know, when it stops, I stop. I take a photo, and he's like, okay, enough photos. Yipping again. And I keep kind of moving back. And then this really strange thing happened that I didn't quite anticipate. There was a logo, and the coyotes stop at the log, and its paws were, like, right at this log. And I kept moving, and I'm like, oh, that log is the end of its territory.
That log is, like, where it knows this is. This is, this is coyote space. And then over there is Andrew's space. And I was in Andrew's space, and the coyote was in coyote space. And the yipping kind of stopped, and it didn't go away, it didn't leave, and it just kind of looked at me. But, like, it's. Everything about it changed. Like, its shoulders kind of dropped, and it just got, like, chill and that tense stance that it had before with the yipping just went away because I did what I was supposed to do. I left. I gave it its space, but it was so cool seeing this, this log, like this little tree that had fallen over. Like, that's its space. And it also happened to be just perfect for lighting. So I got back and I took a photo that is one of my like, favorite coyote photos. It's just this beautiful coyote looking up. It's not looking at me, it's looking up and it's just kind of surrounded by green. And the light was really nice. And this coyote's eyes are stunning and it's just this like perfect animal standing right there in its, in its house, like where it lives. This is the forest, is, this is the space for this coyote. And then it did a different vocalization. It kind of wasn't looking at me, it was doing something else. And I think that was letting its partner know and its litter know we're good. That's my assumption. I don't know. I don't know. But that's sort of what they said. It was like, alright, we're good. Or just letting other people know in the area. Other coyotes know in the area. This is like my space. So I got some, I got some recordings on my iPhone and of the audio and got a photo I was really happy with. And what I love about that is like, for me, that wasn't a scary encounter because I knew what was happening. I think for other people it might have felt scary, especially if you don't know anything about coyotes or haven't had an experience with them. But I was like, I went home and I was like, I was escorted, I was escorted out of coyotes territory. That's so cool. Behavior. Behavior happened in front of me. I was involved in that and that made me feel, I don't know, maybe not to get too emotional. It was special. It was a special moment and I'm so glad that I experience like this, like textbook behavior and got a good photo out of it and got a fun story for, you know, to tell you beside the fire and our flannel.
[00:43:42] Speaker B: Yes, that's a good one. Absolutely. I could go on and on, you know, just nerd out so hard. Biologist, you just did a great job of explaining exactly what happened. It's very similar with cats. You see a whole bunch of video like these crazy mountain lion videos. That's what they're doing. They're just like, get away from my baby. That's usually exactly what it is. Just like, hey, I'm intentionally intimidating you. Just get out of here. I don't want you around me or my family. So. Oh, that's such a beautiful story. I love coyotes as well. So I'm glad that you had that amazing urban wildlife experience and you have to send us, you have to send me all of these things. Like I would love. Yeah, I'm sure everybody would also love to see, yeah. Your, all of your crazy ice diving experiences and this expedition that you're now on and the beautiful coyote photo. So, yeah, I'll be sure to share those with everyone.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Awesome. It works out well. I'm pretty lucky, you know, I get to do urban wildlife, like three seasons out of the year. And then that, you know, that cold season, I'm under the ice doing what I love ice diving. So it's a pretty good, yeah, pretty good way to spend the year.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: Awesome. And all the stories that come from it. So thank you, Andrew, for sitting down with me and everybody and sharing these awesome stories from your time in the field. I mean, who doesn't love a good campfire story? Those were fantastic.
[00:45:10] Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you. That was, that was super fun.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: Thank you for joining me on this wild adventure today. I hope you've been inspired by the incredible stories, insights and knowledge shared in this episode. To learn more about what you heard, be sure to check out the show
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