Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:11 Hey friends, welcome to today's episode of rewild ology. In this show, I am chatting with Karena Colm, who is a primate conservation biologists, and has been all over the world, studying a diverse array of species. She's worked at some of the USS top conservation organization started her own nonprofit, primate connections, and even spoke on a Ted stage, discussing the difference between conservation knowledge and action. And to top it all off, she even let some graduate courses, which I happened to have graduated from erotic. We get deep in this episode and explore her winding path that got her to where she is today. We leave very few stones unturned. So without further ado, let's get to today's show with Kerryn. Lecom awesome. Well, hi Chris, and thank you again. Yes. I was just thinking kind of to start out as you have a really fun background, you're kind of from all over the us and up North and down South. Kind of just tell me where you come from and what's your story behind that?
Speaker 0 00:01:23 Um, yeah, I do. I love this question. People are like, where are you from? And it's harder for me to answer. I feel like I'm a 50 50 shot. Um, having grown up in the Midwest in green Bay, Wisconsin, and then, um, graduated high school in ocean Springs, Mississippi. So that kind of deep South, um, yeah. Yeah. How was that transition? Uh, you know, at 10 years old it was quite startling. I mean, you know, um, those cultures, there can't be any more different. I like to say that that culture shock was worse than moving to England. You know, whole different country was like more smooth than, um, from the Midwest to the South, but, um, I definitely am grateful for a few things, you know, from both of them. And I feel like they rounded, rounded me out.
Speaker 1 00:02:14 Well, what, what, what are those things?
Speaker 0 00:02:18 Um, I usually share by saying, you know, what I'm grateful for from each one. So I know that the skills and kind of the attributes that I got from Wisconsin, um, or work ethic, um, ambition, drive, focus, um, things like that. And you know, in the South to be completely honest, you told me we were going to have fun and get deep. So I'll start. Yeah. When I thought about the South for awhile, I was like, I didn't get nothing from there. You know, like, you know, it was just like a little, you know, slower pace, different sort of focuses know, things like that. And
Speaker 2 00:03:00 I was hard on the South, you know, and I, um, I didn't see what I got from there until I saw it. And now I am like so grateful for it. And, uh, to the South, I attribute, um, family loyalty and family ties, you know, when you're down in the South, there's nothing like mama and Papa's house and, you know, go into somebody's street where they're called Lee tort lane, because all the lead towards live there. And it's just this family and kids are running a muck, you know, from all their cousins house to their auntie's houses, to their houses again. And, um, there's something super beautiful there in that family ties and, and, you know, they make time and say, well, it's Sunday, we're going to Sunday dinner with the family and everybody's coming and we're having sweet tea. And like, you know, so that family loyalty, those family ties that family time.
Speaker 2 00:03:54 And also, um, I like to say, uh, being content like the feeling of being content with what you have, um, when I moved to California and things like that, you know, um, I call it the grappling culture where everybody's like grappling to be the best artists and the best author and the best coach and the best scientists in the best, you know? And it seems like every now and again, they're kind of missing the happiness along the, along the way, you know, and they won't be happy till they become that best thing. And, you know, down there in the South, we're just w you just contend what you have, and you're grateful for what you have, and you have this ability to sit in those moments and just say, well, I'm on, I, you know, it's a good, beautiful day. Look at you, look at that sunshine. And, uh, and, and to feel contentness in your heart on the day to day. And so those are the glory things to take away. I think from those, those cultures, those experiences,
Speaker 1 00:04:58 That's an incredible blend too. Like, those are some really strong attributes that you've brought with you. I mean, having known you for a while, like, I can see all of that all the time, which is awesome. Like you, you exemplify all of those characteristics, which is pretty incredible. Like you're the perfect blend of the Midwest and the South. It's awesome. So how in the world did you get so involved in conservation? Like where did that come from in your life?
Speaker 2 00:05:28 Um, I, uh, I love this question too, that I always, um, blame it on the movie gorillas in the mist, you know, um, in that movie. So Garney, Weaver's plane, um, Diane Flossie, and it's a pretty brutal movie, you know, they're cutting gorilla's heads off their couldn't grow his hands-off there's poaching. There's like witchcraft. There's like all this stuff. And, uh, I watched it like eight years old and I joke now with my mom, my mom, like, Oh, I was like, I, I was kinda young to watch
Speaker 0 00:05:58 Those movies, you know, because as I, um, watched them, I remember like, kind of coming out. And I was just like, I don't really understand why people would want to, you know, use these gorillas. Hans is ashtrays and, you know, like why there's all this, you know, these atrocities happening out there and stuff. And so I was like, you know, I'm going to save the gorillas. And so at eight years old, I kind of put this, you know, primate conservation cap on that. I was going to go and, um, save these gorillas and then I never really stopped. Um, and then I guess I will slip in that one time, I rehabbed a bird named Pete three, and he was, you know, nowadays, most often you should actually be, find wildlife, send it to a rehab center. So I want to say out loud, but, uh, in my day it wasn't quite as clear.
Speaker 0 00:06:48 So I called the rehab center, they gave me a bunch of coaching. Um, my mom was very familiar with wildlife and things like that. So we rehab this bird and, uh, when he flew away after, you know, scuffed up head hardly no feathers, you know, it was like, um, and I knew at eight years old that because I had helped him, he was going to be able to go out and propagate and have babies and his babies were going to have babies. I think it was those two things, that movie, and then that dang bird. And then I know there was like, no looking back,
Speaker 1 00:07:21 Like this is my path and I'm going down it
Speaker 0 00:07:23 Cause right. That's right. That's right.
Speaker 1 00:07:26 So you did mention England. Um, so what is your, um, your like educational backgrounds? Like where did you go to school? What were your degrees in?
Speaker 0 00:07:35 Um, yeah, so I went to the university of Colorado at Boulder. Um, and I got a bachelor's degree in anthropology. Um, and then I went on and got a masters degree at Oxford Brookes university in Oxford, England in primate conservation biology. That's a master's of science,
Speaker 1 00:07:57 That's a mouthful. That's awesome. So like, where did you take that? Like, where did you take that? Cause I know that you've done so many incredible projects and clearly focus on primates for the most part. So where did you take, especially your primate conservation degree? Like where did that take you across the world and what did you study?
Speaker 0 00:08:16 Um, so, you know, I thought, because I had done that rehab with that bird and things like that, you know, as I was coming through life a little bit, I was like, I'm going to definitely do rehab. You know, I'm going to practice on North American wildlife, and then I'm going to teach a little baby chimpanzees, you know, how to drink out of a bottle of, you know, diapers on and send them out to the forest and things like that, man, I, you know, I went all the way into my master's degree, kind of with that. So, um, I've been training in, um, North American wildlife rehabilitation, and then I did some primate keeping as an intern and things like that. And then here I am, I'm in Bangladesh, halfway through my dang master's degree. And, um, what we're experiencing on the ground is something pretty profound.
Speaker 0 00:09:04 You know, there's a lot of deforestation and in Bangladesh, a lot of hardship, a lot of different things like that. And, um, I had seen a couple of rehab centers. The rehab centers are full of animals. They're full of volunteers. You know, I'm starting to kind of put this puzzle together in my head about what's needed out there where I can be powerful, different things that with this weird passionate primate cosmic, like, what am I, what am I going to do? Dang, I don't know. So I'm in Bangladesh actually working on a film documentary and we hear this like clamoring in the woods. And so the whole film team rushes over there, we're looking for hula givens, but this is like such a loud sound. We got to go see me come around the corner. And I see all these kids and, um, they're clamoring hooting and hollering, you know, ringing bells and stuff like that.
Speaker 0 00:09:48 I asked, you know, what are they doing? And they tell me that they're doing a pledge and that they had just finished an environmental education program. And at the end of the program, part of it was to pledge allegiance to the forest and to say, you know, this is my home. This is the animal's home, you know, together will prevail. And in that moment I was like, dang. Um, as much as I want to do the rehab and as good as I might be at it, cause I've been practicing. Um, I gotta switch. Right. You know, all the rehab centers are full and all the rehab centers full of volunteers and workers who are great at their jobs, but what we don't have our safe forests around the world within which to put the animals back. And it's like, well, where are they going to go? You know, they're in the rehab center and it's like, where are the animals going to go? And so I went to Oxford and I was like, okay, I'm switching to environmental education and outreach. And they were like, look home.
Speaker 3 00:10:44 You know,
Speaker 0 00:10:46 These kids in Bangladesh, I'm telling you, here we go. So I switched over. And in that transition, I, I, you know, I, I left a kind of the physical animal side a little bit and I went into environmental education. So I quickly found myself then, uh, at the San Diego zoo Institute for conservation research and there I was working in the human dimension of conservation. So there's a lot of biologists that know it's great for the animals. There's a lot of botanists that know it's great for the plants. There's a lot of, um, reproductive physiologists that can help make babies to put in those lands, you know, but, um, San Diego is the Institute for conservation research was really excited and exploring that human dimension side and with anthropology, cultural anthropology, knowing human communities. Um, and how do we respectful and some of those situations, plus what all the conservations were going to do, like knowing primate conservation. So intimately, I would understand, gosh, the biologist have to like make this a core protected area. They had to do this. So I was just pretty
Speaker 2 00:11:54 Well poised then to take this human dimension side of conservation. So long story long, sorry. Um, no, keep going Vietnam. I did a really long, I did a long-term project at the TAVI Gazoo, um, working with in relation to the population with me. Um, and I also did a little bit of work around like the ketos, California, Condors, local, uh, wildlife inside San Diego in the United States, the Indian bear work, just a lot of things that involved, citizen science, students, teachers, um, education and awareness, uh, in general. Um, and then those international projects mainly in Vietnam. And then my master's degree was in Bangladesh. That's where I did that. That was awesome. And then I was an independent for a little while, a little bit of work in Madagascar, a little bit of work in Costa Rica. Um, and then, yeah, I also did some work with the primate connections organizations that I started, which is all entrepreneurial. So alongside kind of those professional things, I did some entrepreneurial stuff. Oh. And then I was a professor also for Miami university for project dragon fly for just a couple of their programs, which is a master's degree program at Brooke knows. Well, she graduated from, and we both know, so those are kind of the, the tracks, you know, that I took with that degree,
Speaker 1 00:13:26 The end, that's incredible. Like you really put your feet into a lot of different things, which is really exciting. So to kind of align everything together, what years were you at San Diego? And then like, so what, what years did those different paths occur in?
Speaker 2 00:13:44 Yeah, so that's a great question. I graduated with my master's degree in 2008 and then worked at the San Diego zoo 2009 to about 2013, 2014. And then I was an independent and just running my entrepreneurial stuff only, um, from about 2013 to 2017. Um, and then, um, since 2017, I've transitioned once more after learning a lot about entrepreneurship and things like that, um, into now working for natural habitat adventures, which we can talk about. It's an eco travel company that helps to get people out, to see wildlife and makes wildlife valuable, alive and intact rather than degraded and dead, which always had hit on. Um, and then like I'm sitting on boards and stuff like that now, which is I think that next revolution of, of how to keep moving forward in that primate career.
Speaker 1 00:14:39 Yeah, absolutely. So what, so I I'm, I know that there was more of like an incident happened, but what was the reason why, or what occurred that made make that huge switch from working at the San Diego zoo to going out on your own? Was it like an, a, like an event because that's a big decision, especially working for such a well-known organization. So going out on your own, like what, why did you make that decision?
Speaker 0 00:15:10 That was a great question. Good noticing. Um, um, so, you know, conservation, it's just, it's a tough arena to play in, and there's just so many variables that come up all the time. And, um, San Diego zoo and San Diego Institute for conservation research is like one of the most incredible conservation organizations that I know wholeheartedly. I mean, the seriousness, the tact, the commitment, the poise, the, you know, aggressive attitudes to get things done and to do it the right ways is, is extraordinary and impressive. Um, but you know, the whole time that I was working at San Diego, I was also doing these side projects, kind of these entrepreneurial side projects. So I always had this voice in the side of my head. Like, could you ever make your pet projects that you do at night and at home and for hours your real life, you know, could you ever do that?
Speaker 0 00:16:08 Right? And so that voice is just kind of there, right? But San Diego is such a strong organization and so amazing. And I'm so grateful and all these things, um, you know, but yeah, we were deep man in, in Northern Vietnam. I was, I was in deep working with the local people there. And I, I was, you know, asking them about their, their hardships and what, what was impacting them on the day to day. And we were co-creating solutions, you know, to absolve some of those hardships. And, you know, several of those hardships came because every on the biological side, a lot of people were interested in saving a portion of, of their forest, you know, for this highly endangered, um, animal, the Tongans, none was Mickey, there's only 120 left on the planet. They're endemic to Northern Vietnam. They're only found in this forest patch, it's, you know, it's critical, it's a critical population, but you know, the local people have been since the Dawn of life, you know, utilizing that forest for their subsistence needs and for their they're taking for their medicinal purposes, you know, all these things.
Speaker 0 00:17:20 So protecting even the core, just the core of it, you know, had impact and, and things like that. So, um, that's real life stuff, you know, and we were there together and, you know, I'm falling in love with everybody and the way of Vietnamese life and, and, you know, these things and, you know, a little turf war happened, I guess, you know, where other people were like, we're taking care of these Tongass no-nos monkeys. And then, you know, another organization was like, we are, and, you know, we had, as a team completed a lot on the biological side, you know, we had demarcated where the core protected area should be and did studies on where the animals were most and, and things like that created buffer zones and, you know, different, um, solution sets and things like that. But it was a little bit abrupt, you know, to be completely honest.
Speaker 0 00:18:07 And it was kind of like, okay, we're done in this section of our portfolio, we're done in this section of the world over. And I was like, yo, I'm not, I'm not done. I got stuff going on. I mean, you know, we have like an exit strategy I need years. Um, this is delicate. And, you know, I think that, um, again, with all due respect, they took a chance on me and they took a chance on diving this far into the human dimension of conservation and having, you know, somebody dedicated to communicating with local communities this way, you know, there should have, you know, should there are those words that you say this should have always been parts of everybody's portfolio, but to be honest, the science in, in like the biological stuff, that's where they, that's their jam. That's, you know, that's, that's their Avenue, whatever, and everybody's got their avenues and we should applaud them for their avenues and for being the best experts that they can.
Speaker 0 00:19:02 And when they want to large in their expertise, just a little bit, there's always a little bit of a learning curve, you know? So I think that the human dimension, and maybe not there, it was just a little bit of that expansion in that amazing direction. And, and so like, uh, the project was done and I was heartbroken and I felt really vulnerable and that moment, and I, and I thought, you know, I don't, I don't want anybody to ever tell me I'm done again until I feel complete. And I, and I, and I didn't ever want those people to think, Oh my gosh, she just never came back. And she didn't, she said she was going to come back and, you know, she didn't, and, and you know, less the San Diego zoo, I was able to send some care packages and photographs and, you know, letters in English and things like that. You know? So we, we tried and, you know, investments and money and all these things are big variables to consider. But, um, yeah, between that, I was like, I'm not gonna let anybody tell me I'm done if I'm not done, because I love these people too much and I can't be vulnerable like that. And I wondered if I could do it anyways, let's make the tub now.
Speaker 1 00:20:06 That's incredible. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that story. I think that almost all of us in the conservation field, we have a story like that. Where in the moment it was terrible. It was awful. It felt like shit. You're like, fuck you. Like, I can't believe you. Like, how did you do this to me? Like, if everything I did to you and then that for you to, for you. Um, but those end up being the most important moments in our life, because then they start the next chapter, which is incredibly exciting. And for you, it sounds like your next chapter was you made your private connections, nonprofit that you started. So what did you do there? I mean, were you like hair blazing, like bitches, I'm going to show
Speaker 4 00:20:48 You what we're going to do. Like, what'd you like what was next?
Speaker 0 00:20:53 Yeah. I mean, it wasn't as, as hair blazing as that, it was just like, Oh shit. Like, I don't want to be caught up like this again. And, you know, and you know, like, I, I don't know. I had a little bit of a personal story. Don't be risky. You gotta be more stable in case, you know, your family back in Mississippi goes haywire. Like I had all this, you know, processing all that, whatever ha like hair blazing. But like, I don't know, I was just ready to rock. And I had been doing private connections yet in the background on like this big of a scale prior till two, this and, you know, primary connections is just a vehicle to help primate conservation organizations around the world get stronger. Because the other thing that I learned while in Vietnam is that it is great to send a person like me to this field.
Speaker 0 00:21:41 And I didn't do a good job and we learned a lot and all these things, you know, but when you're on the ground and you have like, this maturity thing kind of happened in your own, like psyche and it's okay, wherever you are in the process, it's okay. Like, I don't expect anybody to be here cause I certainly wasn't. And so like, did you, haven't had your moment or this doesn't make sense. That's fine. But you know, I had this like opening again where I'm like, man, I love this. And I'm really good at this. And this is great and stuff like that, but you know, the cost we get you over there and the cost to have you sent over there. And the costs were the, the translation of three languages from the local dialect to Vietnamese, English, to English, Vietnamese, local dialects, making interviews take 12 hours sometimes.
Speaker 0 00:22:25 Um, with single families, you know, this kind of cost benefit ratio is just like, when, when you also then see a local organization, you know, a local Vietnamese run, a conservation organization, that's on the ground. I'm like, man, you know what, they're the creme de LA creme. And they got it and they know the language and they know the hearts and they know, you know, the, the, the like, um, Robin and we've been, you know, they are the heart of this. And man, most often when you see them and they've chosen that lifestyle in country, you know, a obese person who's then chosen to be a part of a Vietnamese conservation organization. They also got pride. You know what I mean? And they've got heart and they've got grit and they've got this stuff. And so I got that and I was like, man, instead of me running around, I need to find a way to popularize and make money for and give them the resources that they need for each one of these organizations around the world to be better, do better, find better because they deserve to be because they're so dang good.
Speaker 0 00:23:34 And if I can help them expand their capacity, then that's, that's, that's what's up. And so I'm like, okay, I can feed the babies with the bottles. Now I can't go to all field. Now I'm just going to have to help all the people that are already living there. Just, you know, expand that their greatness because man, they're good. So then yeah, I mean, it's kind of a weird model, but we did a calendar where we would invite organizations from around the world to share their PCs, their trials, their time, their logos, their websites. And I would put it into a compilation. So there's 12 different organizations inside and, um, do all the graphic design and all the work, and then hand them back to these organizations where they can make 50% profits from wholesale, you know, to selling it to constituents. And so it's kinda like a ready-made fundraiser piece.
Speaker 0 00:24:26 And the beauty of it was, is because you, weren't just selling your own fundraiser piece, all 12 organizations plus myself, and some of those plus Jane Goodall, um, we're selling these calendars. You might only sell 20, but because so many other people are selling them, your logo could potentially go out to thousands of households because you're up in there and everybody's selling the same piece. And so I found it collaborative. I found it educational. I found that I could diversify and show the Sprig and the charisma primates. I mean, they're just so like they just splashed in your face of awesomeness. You know, you put them all together from all over the world. It's like, dang, they come in that many shapes and sizes like, um, and have that collaborative field. And then even students, like, let's say, you know, Brooke, you and I have both been in those positions.
Speaker 0 00:25:17 You want to go to the cheetah conservation fund and you need your plane ticket. How are you going to raise the money for it? Well, people that were in your position that wanted to do a primate thing would say, Hey, I want to go to Kenya to volunteer, but I don't have enough money by calendar. They make 50%. And they're 50% of calendar each closer, you know, to their flight, the Kenya to go and do primate work. And so, um, so, you know, we crushed it with that. It was awesome. So yeah, primate connections. And then in collaboration with, uh, you know, side company that I created, we thrive global. Um, we were committed to helping, you know, people thrive in this space of business and conservation and, um, yeah, me really focusing on my best niche, which was that getting those primate companies empowered basically.
Speaker 1 00:26:09 So you use like the primate connections to literally make the connection with these organizations, help get them the funding they needed, and then using your incredible expertise then with we thrive, grow global. That has been how you gave them almost like a training program to make themselves better, essentially like a better brand organization. Is that kind of,
Speaker 0 00:26:28 Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. Yeah. You nailed it, Brooke. Yeah. So, um, what I also experienced out there is that like, man, we gotta be honest. A lot of us that are conservationists, we're really good at conservation, but we might suck at business. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I know I'm like go do some text stuff. I'm like, can I just get it like a half dead baby bird? Like, I'd rather, you know what I mean? Don't make me do some tech stuff. Like, I'll be like, you know, like that was it. You know, a lot of these, a lot of these conservation organizations, they have incredible volunteer programs, but nobody knows about it. How many people do you know, that are dying to go do work with primates or cats or whatever. And it's like, you know, have opportunities, but somehow they're not full all the time because the volunteer kids can't find the opportunities, you know?
Speaker 0 00:27:18 So like, yeah, so we thrive global would work on, um, training conservationists to be better business people and to utilize platforms, um, like, you know, Facebook or Google or ads or, you know, they're volunteer. Um, what do you call those advertisements? You know, things like that. And then conversely, um, some of my partners that I got involved with were really big business people, a lot of like entrepreneurial business people, you know, and they were making choices every day and we found that we could slap a layer onto those business folks of being more conservation minded, reminding them where you're getting your water bottles, how are you ordering your food? You know, like what are you doing as you're trying to become a more heart-centered in your business and be better business people? Um, I, you know, I was able to really, um, put a lot of expertise there. So we got business in the conservation folks and conservation into those business folks.
Speaker 1 00:28:13 So just melding everybody together. How did you find your partners? Both in the field, especially these people who are in incredibly remote places that are doing on the ground work and then to the polar opposite. I mean these professional business people that might be in a completely different field, you know, that, that they do business, they don't do conservation. So how did you navigate both of those and how did you find these people?
Speaker 0 00:28:41 I love that question. And I think it's a really great one to share for people who are watching, you know, you're in listening to your amazing podcast because these people need to just go for it. And there's kind of ways, I mean, like finding those partners for the calendar is just a constant thing, you know, seeing if they do have a website, um, really, I think my biggest win is actually conferences, to be honest with you, you know, there's the Zac conference, the zoos and aquariums committing to conservation. Those WCN the wild conservation network. There are what, uh, what's a couple that, you know, Brooke, um, that Zack newspaper association. Exactly. Yes. Everything with the, um, yeah. ACA and a zag, that's everything. So these things are real and what's, what's wild is that the conservation world, it seems like, like so hard to break into, like whatever, you know, but I mean, if you show up consistently a couple of, at some of these events or, or now even virtual events and, you know, stand out a little bit that that's profound, you know, I really done a lot of my best networking and seen a lot of those folks from around the world because those programs in those conferences will bring people locally, you know, even the American society of primatologists, the international problems, a logical society.
Speaker 0 00:30:02 Um, so, you know, if your species specific find those, they all have them, the big cats, you know, you've seen them, you know, broken, you got it, you got it. I mean, they got 'em. So I think that that's really profound because, you know, find a tablet. And then the other, the other side of that was I think, just being fortunate in Southern California. So down, down in San Diego, um, you know, I've always been interested in personal development and doing the best that I can. And in kind of that personal development world, you find a lot about entrepreneurs that are out there, you know, with a niche, with something to teach people and things, and they have gatherings and they have a vision and, and a lot of those kind of folks that we met just kind of in that area, you know, so I guess I did it as far reaching as a conference, looking for, you know, my friends from Rwanda as I would be in Encinitas, California, like, Hey, what's up, you guys, you know, selling something good over there or whatever, and, and saying, well, are you using water bottles?
Speaker 0 00:31:01 Are you encouraging them to bring their own? And it was, it was beautiful. Um, but also, you know, the questions that you're asking, like, how did you get those, you know, that might be why the businesses, and also here today, you know, I, I think in some ways, some portions of that net could have been too wide, you know, and, and my partners were more experienced in their business world and helping business men and women be the best that they could be. And I had had my head, you know, of a monkey's ass and I'm like, woo. You know, and they're like, dang, she's in tech or whatever. Um, you know, and so those could be, those are great questions. And then sometimes they're like, how does it fit? Maybe it's it. I don't know. But I like,
Speaker 1 00:31:49 Well, I mean, so that was 2013 to 2017. You were exclusively doing that. Like you were not at that, at that. I mean, that's a long time and it was, it just, you like, you were private connections, like,
Speaker 0 00:32:04 But my romantic partner was also my business partner who had a lot of the business side of it. And so we had, we call mingled all that, which I don't think I necessarily recommend my romantic partner anymore. Um, but yeah, we were crushing it together mostly. And we lived in Costa Rica. We lived in the coast of Oregon. We lived in an RV. Um, at one point, you know, when we were coaching different businesses and doing different conservation things, we took our RV, um, over a course of, um, gosh, I want to say 17 a year, a little more, um, across the United States, like going to these different conferences and hitting different venues where people would pay us to speak, or we could coach somebody or I could do a seminar or, you know, we would make tota buds like anything. Um, yeah. And we did it yeah. Really, really successfully for about four years. Wow. Well, like, you know, like who says that it was like, you know, kindness and die.
Speaker 1 00:33:11 It just depends on what your definition of success was. I mean, it sounded like you were able to make at least enough financial support that you were able to do that exclusivity. So if that is your definition of success, then it was a success. Like you were able to support yourself and just go talk to people and spread the word about primate conservation for 17 months and make connections to do seminars and all kinds of stuff. So I guess it really just depends on what your definition of success is. Cause I mean, to me that sounds like a dream. Like I could just frigging hop in a van with my cat and my husband and just get it. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:33:47 I mean, I know personally right now he's going to go. I know, but I guys, everybody should have done she'll podcast in your neighborhood, you out there with her she's on her way. I know, I know it's, <inaudible> on the side, on the side. I've heard that. That's how wild and that's how wild we are. Um,
Speaker 1 00:34:11 I just think that, yeah, the kind of people that enter this field, you have more of that in you, just that spirit of exploration and you don't need necessarily a home to be home, like anywhere that you are enjoying, the moment is home. And I mean, like when I was just recently, you know, in Africa for a whole month, last year, like I didn't want to get on the plane and come home. I was like, I want to stay here
Speaker 0 00:34:41 Botswana for two weeks.
Speaker 1 00:34:43 And, and I was like, I don't want to leave. Like this is now going to be my new home. I came home, obviously I'm here.
Speaker 0 00:34:53 I know you. And I need you to go back. If you guys can't find us later and we're both gone, like definitely check the latest and local cat refuge or like we're an app somewhere. Hopefully not. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:07 Not just by satellite phone only, that's the only way
Speaker 0 00:35:10 Getting a hold of it. I love it. That's great. So the kind of hell
Speaker 1 00:35:19 Ended now, you don't have to go too deep if you, if you don't want to. So did that transition from entrepreneurship back into the job world happened because of the breakup or like, did he take some of the business with them? And you're like, okay. I, something more stable or what was the defining moment that made you switch?
Speaker 0 00:35:44 Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, yeah, you know, as part of, as part of it all, I ended up, um, going and having an incredible opportunity in Madagascar to work with the Madagascar biodiversity partnership and conservation fusion. Um, two incredibly longstanding conservation organizations in Madagascar, they're launching a school and we kind of wanted to evaluate how that launch went. I was pretty well poised to assist with that and then be a, a pack mule, like, you know, uh, each plane ticket you buy, you can bring more luggage. And so it's almost cheaper to get like another person who's also good in the field to get on the plane. I was like, I'm in, I don't care. What just, yes. You know, so we're off to Madagascar for a month. Um, Susie McGuire and myself, the founder and president of constipation fusion, and you know, that wig, our, our, our RV that we've been to hunt around it and is parked back in San Diego.
Speaker 0 00:36:42 We had done a whole loop Arizona all the way through Mississippi, all the way back around through the United States, all the rest of California. And so my partners stayed there. I went to Madagascar and things, and, you know, you could just tell that things were Rocky. And so by the time that I came back from, well, I mean, I kind of broke the romantic part of it up while in Madagascar, like on the phone line, like, you couldn't even hear, can you hear me? I'm breaking up on the love side of it, how we can keep the company, you know, it's like this flood that started like, you know, so like definitely I could always have more couth and better delivery and things like that. Right. So like, like I'm crazy. Oh yeah. So like, so by the time I come back to the United States, um, my partner has like dissolved the company.
Speaker 0 00:37:34 We tried global part of it. No, the primary connections, like silo is like fine, except for the ads we were selling. Um, we were selling those calendars online and we had ads that we were paying for and they were very much paying for themselves and we're shipping all over the world. And so those ads were like cut off. And so like that. And it's like, it wasn't vicious, but it was just like, um, indication of like, you know, perhaps if we were going to do it romantically, like he wasn't ready to do it professional either and needed just a clean break. So, I mean, it was really, this is at the time, but like I'm softening to the idea these days trying to be cool
Speaker 1 00:38:15 Has some time to heal. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:38:17 I was like, Holy shit. Right. So I'm back in the United States. I'd like 15, $19 of my personal bank account. And the business account is just like closed and everything's done. And there's just like, and I'm like, Oh my God. So, and I've been out of town for a month in Madagascar. I'm like skinny because I think I have a layer. Like, I mean, you know, like, you know, it's just like crazy. So I'm like, I'm like, and then I have this rig, I have a 33 foot RV, but my dog and my cat, like looking back and thinking, okay, I got $19, no income. Like, you know, Nope, no, no fiance, like, no, nothing. Like, Oh my God, like, this is, this is for real. And gas was like three, $4 a gallon. And I was like, this thing is 50 cents a mile to move.
Speaker 0 00:39:03 I was like, I don't even know where I'm going. You know, like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And, um, so yeah, so that was like, that was like the dissolvement of, of that. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to just like, have to figure out the next best revolution. And, you know, in the whole entrepreneurial thing I had learned that I'm also not very good at kind of like separating my, my work life then from my personal life, once I am an entrepreneur, I, and it was like, oddly, everything I thought I hated about structured working like an end time and a start time, ended up being like, can someone please just give me a start time and an end time so that it doesn't consume my whole life. And I don't feel like I'm always working. Like I can leave.
Speaker 0 00:39:48 And like, that's the end of work. Holy shit. I forgot that there was all this, like, you know, so I think that, you know, I learned a lot, you know, and it was great and stuff like that. So then I was like, okay, I just need to make some money. So I threw out my whole life. I've, I've worked as a banquet server and a bartender in Vail, Colorado. Cause you can kind of jump in and jump out and make decent money and things like that. So I told my little RV around and like, uh, like lived in the woods and like slowly took my bank account $19 back up. Um, it, it was so brutal and it was so scary and it was so raw and we'd be, you know, five miles down, a dirt road, no cell phone service. No, no anything. I'm like driving some car with no four wheel drive or anything, you know, down mountain roads at 6:00 AM.
Speaker 0 00:40:41 So we worked by six 30, like, and you know, um, I wasn't exactly sure where I was going to go. And then, like you said, sometimes those biggest downturns are like all of a sudden when some window opens, it's like extraordinary. So having done my undergrad in Boulder, I found some solace in Boulder when there was holidays, I'd come here to see my Boulder family and people I'd fallen in love with during my college days that still stayed in touch with, I used to take care of the kids and I'm at a party and this they're like, Oh, you guys should talk. And there's this gentleman there, you know, he's like, looks cool. I mean, he's an older gentlemen. I'm like, okay, what's up or whatever. And he's like, I work for this company and we do wildlife trips and eco conservation trips around the world and stuff like that. And I'm like, cool. I'm like, cool. That sounds awesome. I was like, I do some stuff around the world too or whatever.
Speaker 2 00:41:34 And I asked them, I go, I go, do you guys go to boreal? And he goes, yeah, yeah, we do. We send some people to boarding and I go cool place the Bornean sender conservation center. And he goes, yeah, yeah, we do. I was like, awesome. I know he's a friend of mine. We worked together in Borneo whole bunch, you know? And then I was like, do you guys go to China? And he's like, yeah, he would do you go to the wall on Panda station and go see those researchers there that are like rocking it and Panda conservation and reproduction. And he he's like, yeah, like we, so this like legit.
Speaker 2 00:42:12 And he goes like, who are you? And I go, like, who are you? You know? And so then, um, I found something new in my conservation tool belt that I'd never had before. And that was conservation travel. And like, you know, Brooke, I mean, we, we spend entire sections of our conservation education. Wondering whether conservation travel is good or bad or not effective or ineffective and there's case study after case study. And I wasn't sure. And I was hesitant until I found Renata had found me and it's a company that really does it. Right. And they are an incredible tool. What they do is an incredible tool to have in your conservation tool belt, um, through all of this experience, whether entrepreneur in it, you know, professoring it, you know, documenting it through a documentary, studying it through, through, um, my master's degree, all those things.
Speaker 2 00:43:11 I've deduced that there's two things that are critical for a successful conservation program. And the first thing is that we have to make the animals more valuable, alive and intact than degraded and dead. It doesn't matter how much education there is. It doesn't matter how much awareness there is. If they're more valuable for their parts and pieces, they're going to die every time. And I never wanted it to be a money issue. I wanted it to be like this heart issue and things, but you grow into understanding that we had to make the animals alive or valuable, alive and thriving. And in spread that wealth as far as you can. Cause because then they all inherently become protected. And that's, that's the best safety net. It's not enforcement. It's not a gunpoint. It's not fences. It's not anything. It's, it's shit. Tons of people saying, that's my animal too.
Speaker 2 00:44:03 And we make money off of that bad boy when it's alive and looking good. And that's like one of the tickets. So you have to help the animals, um, be more valuable live. And then you have to help people fall in love. You know, I think one of the biggest mistakes that I made as a conservationist is I was disgruntled by humanity. And I was like, all you people suck. And I don't know what you're doing and why you're making choices. This is the lungs of our planet. This is the, the liver of our water. This is the procreator of our trees. Like how can you shoot yourself in the foot, most intelligent animal on the land? Like, why are you guys, you know, and you know, all this negativity I would have in my heart. And then I would go out and I'd say, Hey people, well, any of you join me. I need you to come, help me fight this fight of conservation. And I need all my warriors and I need everybody to back me and we need to go in together and we need to be a team. And you certainly can't lead a team. If you have some place inside you, the smack of a team is what got us here.
Speaker 2 00:45:16 It's a conundrum dude. It's a true conundrum. And it sounds so obvious now, but it took me a minute, you know, to like stop hating people and then asking people to join me. It's it's it's you gotta find this resolution inside you somewhere. And it's like, nobody's inherently bad and nobody's inherently doing this. And we didn't mean to fuck this all up. You know, we just are in the state of the world where we are, and all we can do is, is come together, communicate, love each other, join each other, find what perks us out, what we love and fight for it. And so, um, as much as I want to be the scientist, bachelors of science, you know, I see, you know, love has got this huge, huge component here. And it's like, people need to fall in love with animals and we need to fall in love with each other so that we can say, Hey, I love that. I love you. Let's let's create a wall, you know, this like protection and, you know, see what we can do. So,
Speaker 1 00:46:25 Oh, it was beautiful. Kind of set a better myself. Oh my God. So you speaking about this reminds me, I mean, you had the privilege and was amazing. You did a Ted talk and on your Ted talk, you, you spoke a lot about how there's a disconnect between how we feel and care about the world and then how we act. And it sounds like that is kind of all together and what you were just speaking about. So could you speak a little bit more about that? Why there is such a disconnect between how much we care and then how much we actually act when it comes to conservation and saving the world.
Speaker 2 00:47:07 I love this question, Brett. Thank you. Yeah. Um, you know, I take so much responsibility here. Like I think that, um, this is where our most empathetic and compassionate hearts for the people need to come out. Because once you start to actually look at the history of how we got here and how that gap got to be so big,
Speaker 0 00:47:30 You realize the responsibility isn't actually in the hands of the people that were hands is in the responsibility of us as teachers. And unfortunately with all due respect, we made quite a few mistakes along the way. And the thing is, is that there's, there's basic components to human psychology and how we interpret and how we receive information. And in the conservation world, we've made several mistakes. And, um, the first one is we've, um, committed, you know, crying Wolf, essentially. So in the conservation community, we've been saying for years, um, the whole Amazon rainforest is going to be gone in six years and then six years goes by, and then it's still sticking in there. And everybody's like, okay. And they're like, lions, they're disappearing. They're going to be gone. And it was like vines everywhere, but on Safari, you know? And then it's like, um, these things.
Speaker 0 00:48:24 And so the more that we've used, what we thought was a great tool, like urgency, Oh shit, everything's going to go. And then, you know, you can actually only use that a few times until people are completely numb to it and they stop trusting you. So one of the components of why that gap is so big is because everybody cares a whole lot, but maybe they think they've got time or maybe they think, you know, like everybody's been spicing it up and it's not really that bad because frankly we've been spicing it up and we haven't hit the targets. And we haven't seen like, boom, okay. Yeah. 10 years of the lines are gone. Like they're not here. Like those proclamations are dangerous as hell. And we've used them time and time again. And we're losing our audience and they're numb. So there that's one of them.
Speaker 0 00:49:13 The other thing is a little bit of a catch 22. You don't know if the egg or the chicken came first, but in the conservation community, we decided to use beautiful charismatic animals from wherever to capture people's attention for conservation issues, we found the largest, the most beautiful, the more charismatic. And we slapped that on every stamp, every cover, every campaign, everything that we've had to say, Hey, save the world. You got to use pandas, polar bears, tigers, you know, something big, something beautiful, something charismatic. Well, the thing is is that those animals only exist in certain places and for the human psyche, when you see that polar bears that live way over, there are in trouble and pandas that live wherever there are in trouble, it sends a subconscious message that says, Oh, shit's burned, but it's over there. And we have a common, um, uh, sense of self and sense of, um, the distance within which we can make a difference.
Speaker 0 00:50:14 You know, it's, it's your, your perceived, uh, circle of personal, um, influence. And it only goes this far and it's like, man, that shit's really bad over there, but I can't really help. Right. So while we thought, because he's zones were so charismatic and more eyeballs, we didn't realize that what the eyeballs were interpreting after the initial look was, Oh shit. I hope everybody in China and everybody in the Arctic is helping those pandas and those polar bears do anything from here. Um, I'd say one of the last big, unfortunate mishaps is, um, that they've made the list of ways that you can help really shitty and, and arbitrary and not very achievable for the average person. So what we've heard is drive more, you know, um, consume, consume less like, you know, garden, like, you know, I mean gardens a good one actually. But like a lot of the times you're looking at a seven year old child who doesn't drive or make shopping decisions.
Speaker 0 00:51:13 And so when you tell them, the only way to help is by driving less and not buying Palm oil. So chocolate in the kids. Like I don't even buy stuff. I don't even have a barely an allowance. And then you've just shown them a half dead polar bear. And so that's how you can help all of a sudden they're like, Oh my God, there's polar bears that live wherever they're. I can't help. Anyways, the only way I could help with some shit I don't even do yet, like drive. And before you know it, you've got this individual and half of the world with these big old hearts with their heads in the sand and they don't trust you. They don't know what's real in terms of timelines. I think the only way that they can help is by money by donating money or doing something, you know, arduous, which might be like not thriving.
Speaker 0 00:51:56 Um, and so all the fun, easy, local ways to help wildlife and the concern for local wildlife has been set aside and lo and behold, psychologically, if it's in our own backyard and if it's something that we can do without doling out a bunch of money. And if it's something that once we do, we can see the, the reward of it. We can see the fruits of our labor paying off because a butterfly comes or the bee visits or your trash poundage is down by, you know, a hundred percent, you know what, 90% of whatever, like that's how you keep the human spirit fed. You keep them fed by telling them the truth. You keep them fed by telling him that they're powerful. You keep them there by giving them choices that work for them. Maybe they don't have money, but they've got grit. Maybe they don't have money, but they've got dexterous hands.
Speaker 0 00:52:51 That's not afraid to get in the dirt, you know? Um, and you let people dues and then you let them see that Petri my bird, you know, fly away. You let them see an animal come to their pollinator garden in their yard. You let them get their carrot out and save those food miles. And that saves, I mean, those are, that's the way that you hook people and we've missed it every time. And so people's hearts are big, but there'll be wilderness. They don't know what to do. They think it's unachievable and man, they're hoping somebody else fucking handles it because it's not in their backyard at somebody else's. And all of these things have set that gap to be so big.
Speaker 1 00:53:36 Yes. And another big thing, which I think the conservation community forgets a lot about. And part of the reason why this whole podcast even came to be, um, so I guess I'm going to get a little vulnerable on YouTube, um, is places like where we grew up? No one talks about those places. And those are some of the most important places when it comes to conservation. And those are some of the places where people need the most help. Like I go home and there's a good possibility someone ODS on something, or there's a really good PA I mean, just the idea of an electric vehicle doesn't even make freaking sense because where the hell are you going to charge one? Is there any, is there even a vehicle that's going to keep up with? What, with just the demands of that lifestyle, like being raised in the middle of freaking nowhere, like life is hard.
Speaker 1 00:54:40 Life is hard. And I think that that is a really big population. That's all across the us and the world, really, that hasn't been part of the conversation. Like it's almost like a rich person's conversation, like, but that's not where the help is needed. Those aren't the people that really need to be inspired. Those are the people that are ever brought into the conversation that we're having right now. Um, and I think that you and me have a really unique perspective on that and whew, well, I'm going a little deep now because I just care so much. So it's just really do. Um, and no one talks about those places, no one ever talks about those places. Um, but for places like that, I guess that all, this is the opportunity to talk about places like that. So, I mean, cause you used to five Katrina, like you have seen some shit and the places that you've been. So like the back woods type places, what conversations need to be had so that we can get all levels of income, wherever you are locale into the conversation so that everybody is heard and everybody feels like they can do something.
Speaker 0 00:56:01 Thank you. I love him so much. And yeah, yeah. You know, you do, you can feel the differences as you, as you enter into different cultures and things like that. And I think that, um, there's a lot of opportunity, you know, in some of those places that don't get touched and, you know, aren't, um, in luxury of being able to sit down and have conversations like this, you know, cause they're living life and they're, they're making ends meet and they're, um, you know, finding ways to live. And, you know, I think, I think that it's an interesting conversation because in one, in one thing, all those opportunities are there, you know, for growth and for inspiration and for things. And then in the same token, some of the behaviors and stuff that you see in some of those small town are some of the most conservation minded you actually have ever seen, you know, some of our hunters and fishers that are getting fishermen that are getting on their fishing licenses and helping to protect, um, waterfowl species and, you know, um, getting and growing gardens or they have, um, you know, some sort of a local shop that they go to, you know, and, and things aren't, you know, traveling as far as they are or they get all their food, you know, out of the value in Mississippi.
Speaker 0 00:57:26 And they haven't been in a grocery store getting all that factory, farm food and eons. And so I think that there is one bit of opportunity for first find that common ground and, and, and to actually applaud some of those communities where they're the best conservationists we've ever met, you know, because in a lot of ways they are doing a lot of things that man, if half of them city folk would do half the thing, them country folk do, we'd be all breathing better. You know? So it's, it's like a rich person's conversation. And this Hugh is here often, you know, the who's doing what and what's nods and things like that. And I think that, um, first like you and I do, we're real in those communities, we got our Hunter friends. We've got acceptance among these people that love us, even though we're probably the tree hugging, you know, from up there where they're like, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 0 00:58:24 But because you and I have a loss our heart and because we're not, you know, um, talking down to anybody and respecting and honoring where everybody comes from and actually listening and saying, Hey, I applaud you. I applaud you for this. When I'm taking tiny steps every day to be better here, this is what I tried. You know, would you be interested in trying a little baby step in this direction with me too? And thanks for teaching me about your, your country green tactics that I can try to apply in my life. So I think that first is again, that, um, applauding where, where some really great action is, is, is already taken place. And then, you know, I think that the other thing is, um, the connections there there's, there's so much pride. You know, when I think about my, my Mississippi friends and family, and so like that, you know, them or their waters and that's their forests and that's their back country and them are there mud holes in there, that's their, um, you know, fishing spot and that's their alligators and that's their, you know, like whatever.
Speaker 0 00:59:28 And, you know, to just remind them and be in celebration of man, you make a living off of this land. How about we fight together? So nobody takes this shit. Or how about we, you know, work together to make sure that when you're pulling fish out, they don't have little plastic pieces in them, you know, because your fishing gets the licenses that water with the DNRs and the, you know, the police that are monitoring the waters. I know you respect your fish. You know, I know you do. So like let's all work in collaboration to make sure that we keep very clear, you know, trash boundaries and things like that, to make sure that your dinner isn't going to be contaminated by these things. So that again, it's as inside everyone's own lives, as it can be a never outside, like in order to save that over there and then fish are really important.
Speaker 0 01:00:26 No, it's not, I don't, it's not about that. It's about, do you want, when the fish come in to your family to be clean, okay, now we're in a common ground and we're not being hypothetical and we're not being all written talking like, let's do the fish. It's it's, um, let's not let anybody fuck with them fish. We like to eat and let's make sure that we got some trash boundaries that protect that, you know. So I think that we're an incredible age. We're an incredible time right now, you know, we're all these opportunities are coming to, to more and more fruition. But I found finding that common ground where you can first, like when I first approached the hunting community, you know, like I was a little bit leery. And when they saw that I was so proud of them and that I loved them for, you know, how much commitment they had to teaching young people about wildlife and being out there in the woods and doing that.
Speaker 0 01:01:17 Like, they're like, Oh shit, you're not one of those 40 toady conservation, come here, start off shit. Like no, no boys and girls, I am not. And then we got somewhere. Then we get somewhere, you know what I mean? Then, then we get somewhere and it's, and it's kinda like older generations too. They're like all you, you know, 40, 20 conservation. As you know, I lived through the depression, I've been saving some tax and like, you know, twisted paths for forever. I got your recycling on lockdown. Perfect. That's where we start. Hey man, I know that you guys leave through that depression on. And I know that you're one of the best recyclers there's ever been because you were using those years, all your shit, like nobody even knows. In addition to that, I got to teach all my friends that you do. There's some new fandangled things that we can do in the space of press. I'm going to teach my new age friends about your genuine old school conservation shit about glass milk bottles and saving rubber bands. And then if I may, I'm just going to say, are some of this new fandangled stuff we're doing, we're, you know, buying local and we're just outta them, like whatever. And you know, I, I just think that that's it. I think that that's the pathway. If I can answer your question,
Speaker 1 01:02:29 That was beautiful. It was beautiful. I just think that that's a very, again, that question is insanely important and it's not asked enough. It's not enough. I don't know if it's ever asked, but since that is like, that is our home. That is what we see. That is what we know. And we know that that conversation isn't had, that's why I like pretty much every chance I get, I'm going to keep asking it just, just for awareness in general, there's so many places across the U S where the conversation is not being had, like they're completely left out of the conversation and they're not only are they left out of this conversation, but they're usually left out of a lot of other very important ones as well. So it's, yeah, it's full circle. It's not just conservation. It's, it's, it's more than that. It's, you know, young, young girls having babies way too young. It's, it's, it's a whole bunch of other conversations that are pretty much all tied into one. But, so thanks for, thanks for sharing that. I want to respect your time. Cause I know that we're coming to the end of the, the time allotment here. Um, is there any last things or wishes or asks that you have of anybody listening to this that you want to tell them?
Speaker 0 01:03:57 Um, I just wanna like acknowledge the pressure out loud that we're experiencing. You know, I think that in our community, we started to make a lot of headway. I mean, we were making a lot of headway in, in, in, in trash, you know, with our reusable water bottles and our reusable silverwares and our reusable shopping bags. And, you know, we were making a lot of headway in thinking about gardening again and bringing, you know, some of our power back and our autonomy and our food. And I think that, um, you know, I was getting to a point where like, if they wouldn't put the coffee cup in my reusable cup, I just didn't have coffee that day. And I, I just want to say that, um, it's, it's really hard right now. It feels like a lot of the work that we've made strides in is, um, regressing.
Speaker 0 01:04:53 And, um, it's okay to be hurt by that and like to have that hurt your feelings a little bit. Um, and you know, at the same time there are these positive things that are happening, you know, we're commuting less than we're, you know, staying home more and, you know, there is less greenhouse gases and, you know, animals returning to places where they were to humanized, you know, for them to feel comfortable and things. And so, you know, there's just like a lot of give and take there. Um, but the thing is, is that we need each other, um, we believe in each other, like we've got to really keep supporting each other and we've got to really keep finding ways to stay strong. And like, if you've made some mistake, I mean, I've made so many, like I have been eating out more and it comes in a styrofoam container and like I've done things, you know, and I feel like I'm like taking at least two steps back in who I am as a conservationist and how I'm performing in my day to day.
Speaker 0 01:05:52 And I just want it to be gentle with ourselves and also sharing the best practices on like kind of those things, you know, as global as we are in, like this hardship, we're really like internal and InFocus into ourselves. And so like, it's, it's really going to be powerful to just say, okay, I forgive myself today. You know, I did, you know, this happened today and things like that. And then as we get stronger just to like refined our strength or things like that. And, um, I don't know, you know, what the future's going to look like, but I just don't want you guys or any of us to like, lose hope because, um, we're on the right side of the team. And sometimes we make mistakes. And I know the gap that you talked about, you know, is a place where we get to take a lot of responsibility and things like that.
Speaker 0 01:06:39 And just thank everybody for keeping their hearts in it. Wait, even when we haven't provided the best information as leaders in this field, and we're going to keep getting better and we're going to acknowledge you and ourselves where we're making strides and where we're doing good. Even if it's only this big, we're just going to say, Hey, good job for that one today. And if you slip tomorrow, then that's okay. And like gentleness, compassion. I fucking see you. It's sucks right now. It's super hard work. Thank you for bringing this delight and doing this podcast and letting us share our stories. Like that's where we find solace and comradery and, um, go local man, like find stuff, you know, maybe to just do in your local garden and help one vegetable, you know, that you grow yourself or whatever, you didn't go and get to the store and get it, and then travel miles to get and watch the birds, watch the bees financial in your backyard, collapsing on yourself, lean on somebody when you need help. And, uh, we still got this. We just had a little step back.
Speaker 1 01:07:45 And if anybody wants to connect with you, how can they get ahold of you? Oh, I got a really old email address, but it's all out there. Cause I love all y'all
Speaker 0 01:07:54 Kriti
[email protected]. So C O R R I N Y
[email protected] priming connections. I will also be honest there COVID threw me off my game. I haven't posted in a while there, you know, things are, you know, hit or miss, but keep, keep poking me and go like private connections. Keep an eye on us there. I am also still working on, um, the Jane Goodall board of directors as a representative on their advisory board for the roots and shoots committee. So I am pouring my heart into the risk committee, um, for Jane Goodall's foundation globally finding the best strategy to keep a young people engaged in conservation and Jane's honor. Um, so we're still crackalackin and, um, it's not as perfect as it's been previously, but it's tough out there. And so, yeah, be compassionate, love each other. Find the words, find common ground first. Um, then talk about improvements with people and, um, Brooke, please, can you crushing it? And I love you so much and thank you. Keep spreading it and let us talk this talk too much that we feel better. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:09:15 Again, for listening to this episode of rewild ology, if you'd like that you heard hit that subscribe button to never miss a future episode. Do you have a cool environmental organization, travel story or research that you'd like to share? Let me know <inaudible> dot com until next time friends to get it. We will. Rewild the planet.
