Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: It's sunset in Torres del Pine National Park. We just finished a hike to the base of the Cuernos and are driving to the other side of the park. Before dark, we see a group of people standing on a hillside and slow down.
I pull up my binoculars to see what the group is staring at. My heart's pounding so hard I swear it must be audible on the mic.
Standing on the hillside opposite to the group devouring a recent kill is one of the most powerful predators in the Americas. I grab my camera as Rafa tells us to hop out and join the viewing party while he finds a place to park. Camera in hand, I crouch low to the ground. Through my lens, I can see every detail. The muscled shoulders, the tawny fur painted gold in the late afternoon light. And those eyes. Those incredible amber eyes that have evolved to track prey across these windswept Patagonian grasslands for millennia.
This isn't just any puma. This is Rupestre, a queen of Torres de Paine. The message is clear. She's letting us watch her and not the other way around.
For the next 20 minutes, we watch her devour Wanako, slipping legs up to non thigh meat, standing up to move her prize, then laying back down to enjoy another part of her hard earned meal.
You know, I've spent years studying big cats and have seen almost every big cat species in the wild. But nothing, absolutely nothing prepares you for that moment when you're sharing space with a wild puma. Here in Torres del Paine, these cats aren't just surviving, they're thriving.
And their story, it's about to change everything I thought I knew about predator conservation.
Welcome back to rewildology. I'm Brooke Mitchell and today we're stepping into one of the most iconic, iconic landscapes on earth. Torres del Paine National Park.
Have you ever seen anything so magnificent that it takes a moment for your brain to process? It's real.
That's Torres alpine.
After nearly 24 hours of travel, I was exhausted and coffee deprived when we first crested the hill overlooking the park.
But the moment those three granite towers came into view, piercing 2,500 meters into the Patagonian sky, every trace of fatigue magically vanished.
This landscape goes beyond mere scenic beauty. These towers tell a story that spans millions of years. Back to when massive geological forces pushed ancient seafloor up through the Earth's crust.
The distinct bands you see striping the peaks of the park, those are layers of granite and sedimentary rock. A testament to the raw power that shaped this ecosystem. When you stand at their base. You're literally looking at Earth's history written in stone.
The next day, with my friend Haslina in tow, we ventured deeper into the park. The further we drove, the more the views exceeded my wildest expectations.
We had so many moments like this that we started calling this the oh, my God, is this real expedition?
Every turn in the road revealed another view that seemed impossible. Turquoise lakes dotted with icebergs. Autumn colors sweeping across meadows. And herds of guanacos grazing beneath those towering peaks.
Our first stop was Gray Glacier, one of the park's most dramatic features. Standing on the black pebble beach of Lago Gray, watching that massive wall of ice stretch toward the horizon, you can't help but feel humbled. This glacier belongs to the southern Patagonian ice field, the world's third largest reserve of fresh water outside the poles. But it also stands as a stark reminder of what we stand to lose. Like many of Patagonia's glaciers, Gray has retreated significantly in recent decades.
Oh, my gosh. Let me tell you about Patagonian wind. It's not just wind. It's a force of nature that shapes everything here. Picture this. We're standing at this gorgeous turquoise waterfall. I'm trying to record, and gosh. But those winds serve a purpose. They're part of what makes this ecosystem unique, carrying moisture from the Pacific, creating microclimates that support an incredible diversity of life. Every species here has adapted to these extreme conditions.
Speaking of local species, as the day was waning and we were heading toward the park exit, fate threw us an incredible gift. There, in the golden light of late afternoon, lay one of the park's most famous residents, Rupestre Efino Puma, casually feasting on a recent Monaco kill.
This moment, watching one of South America's most powerful predators going about her daily life, wasn't just luck. Rather, it represents decades of dedicated conservation work. Torres del Piney stands as one of the few places on Earth where pumas not only survive, but thrive, sharing the landscape with both wildlife and humans.
How did this happen? And what does it mean for the future of predator conservation?
To understand the Patagonian Puma story, I met with Nicolas Lagos, Panthera's coordinator for the Patagonia Pumas Coexistence Project.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: My name is Nicolas Lagos. I'm from Chile, from Santiago. But now I'm living in Puerto Natales, and I'm the coordinator of the Patagonia Puma Coexistence Project of the NGO Pantera.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: In his cozy home overlooking the fjords of Puerto Natales, surrounded by Plants and wildlife art. Nico helped me understand that the cats of Torres del Paine are rewriting our knowledge of pumas.
As we sipped our coffee and mate, watching the evening light paint the mountains, Nikko explained how several factors came together to create this puma paradise.
Why is this area the highest density of pumas in the world?
[00:07:24] Speaker B: So why? I think it's a mixture of things. So one of them is that there's a national park there. So there is a place where the puma have been protected from a long time. Then it's a place where. Where the prey density is high as well. The main prey of the puma is the guanaco. So in the park there is a huge density of guanaco who outside the park were killed in the past. In the past, the ranchers killed the pumas and killed the guanacos as well, because the guanacos are thought to be competing with the sheep.
So outside the park the you have people who kill the pumas and also who killed the main prey of the pumas. But inside the park you have this kind of, this island of conservation where you have from one side the pumas protected, on the other side, lot of prey. And the other thing is a good habitat. The park have a very good habitat for pumas as a hunting ground.
If it's a way to say it's like a very good places with high mountains, not super high, but small mountains with rocks and small valleys where the pumas can jump from one valley to the other super easily. And in each valley, one group of guanaco, another group of guanacos, so they can kind of move from one place to the other super easily and hunt successfully. Hunt the guanacos.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: The landscape tells only part of the story. What makes Torres del Paine truly special lies in how these cats behave. That moment I shared with Buprestre wasn't mere coincidence. It resulted from years of changed human behavior, allowing these cats to feel secure enough to be visible.
When people stop persecuting pumas, the cats gradually learn that humans aren't a threat. This shift in behavior has allowed scientists like Nico to discover something revolutionary.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Every population of puma throughout the distribution have their own stuff.
Of course, there are some biology that are being shared. But what we have learned here is that probably here the pumas stay less with the mother until their independence. We have seen CPS going independent a year, maybe less than a year.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: Oh really?
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Between one year and a year and a half. But mostly at the year they are okay to go out and find their own territory.
But another thing interesting thing is that is about the social behavior of pumas. So what we learn here is also that puma pumas are not solitary as we thought in the past.
Actually in 2016 in the US in Teton national park, there was a long term study in there where they found that some pumas were sharing carcasses between them, between adults. Something that you have never thought before.
Actually in the books you were teached on the university that you can see only pumas interacting because they are on a courtship or fighting. But here and also in the US we found that the pumas are sharing their carcasses. They have the knowledge of who is who, they work kind of if it was kind of a neighborhood where you know your neighbors and you sometimes you invite to dinner to your neighbors and they recognize between them, they realize that this puma, this individual puma already gave me or invited me to have dinner at her table. So now I invite her to my table and they are interacting more than we thought. Actually we have seen here groups of 10 or 12 pumas, different pumas, females with cubs, independent CS from other litters, adults, males, all of them interacting in a kind of peaceful way. This opens also another book for the pumas because you realize that they have a cognition, they are able to recognize other individuals and make decisions based on their previous experiences. So let's say if you shared a carcass with me and then I go and then I have a kill, it's more probably that I share my carcass with you than with other unknown puma. So they have the capacity, the ability of realizing that you already gave me food and made the decision based on that, on the previous experiences.
They make a society. It's not a society, but yeah, a network of cats, it's a network, they know each other, it's kind of a neighborhood. So that is super interesting.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Imagine that pumas remembering past positive interactions and choosing to share meals with specific individuals. Picture a feline social network complete with preferred dinner companions.
This discovery extends beyond academic interest. It proves crucial for conservation. Because these cats form complex social networks and maintain territories, they're more likely to stay in areas where they feel safe. This predictability makes sustainable puma tourism possible.
But here's where the Rudolph Parks of Patagonia Vision we discussed in our last episode faces one of its biggest tests. While puma tourism is booming around Torres del Paine, the situation looks very different just a few kilometers away. Cross into Argentina and you'll find yourself in a place where it's legal to kill one puma per week per hunter.
Even within Chile, ranchers outside the park's influence are still losing livestock to pumas.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: In Argentina, you have ranchers who hate the pumas. Now actually there's a law who allows to kill one puma per week per hunter.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: What? That's crazy.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: So if you cross the border like 40 meters away from the national park, so the pumas are not protected inside Chile, they are killed illegally. But outside is legal, it's legal to kill pumas. So you are working with a species that have a big distribution, sub population are communicated and. And they need to communicate. So you cannot stop these flukes with.
You can have a place, a national park, plus some ranches that are protecting the pumas, but you are creating still an island. You need this island to be connected with other island and hopefully making landscapes of conservation where you can find some ranchers that are doing tourism, but other ranches that. That are not doing tourism, but they are keep doing ranching, but they are not perceiving losses because of pumas. So how you help those ranches.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: That'S exactly the question at the heart of the root of parks of Patagonia vision. How do you balance conservation with local livelihoods across an entire landscape, not just within park boundaries? Panthera's work offers some promising solutions to this challenge.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: The main goal of this project is to find ways for the coexistence between human activities and the conservation of pumas in here, in this place where we are now in Torres del Paine and surrounding. The two main activities that are somehow related with pumas are tourism and ranching. So we are working with tourism, finding ways to regulate and making protocols for safe puma tourism safe both for pumas and for people.
So that is one of our main goals regarding tourism, to make it in a more responsible way. Because right now we are like the tourism is like being adapter on the way. They are not being thought in the beginning, since the beginning and being planified. There is no planification this far, so we need to stop before it explodes. So our goal is to start working in this to make safer puma viewing and more responsible puma viewing in the area. And the other part of our work here is to working with the local ranches. So. So how to find no lethal ways to protect the livestock? That's one of the goals here.
So one of them is encouraging the ranchers to work with livestock, guardian dogs. So we are working with some ranchers who are now working with those dogs with cerrogido. In Chile, in Argentina, with La Sofia Ranch, we are working two. They are both using these livestock guardian dogs to protect the ship. The other way we can implement some other methodologies towards the coexisting stench is through other kind of deterrents. So in this sense we are developing with the university, the Universidad Desaroyo of Chile, we are designing a sound and light deterrent for predators. We are in prototyping stage of designing these deterrents and then the idea is to test them on the field with pumas in ranchers who have problem with pumas. Another thing we are doing, we are start doing in partnership with WCS is certificating through the eco labels. We are working with wildlife friendly eco label.
So our goal here is to certificate that some enterprises are doing their job, their activities in a way that are more responsible with their environment. Not only with carnivores, but also with birds with the water, they are taking care of the territory where they are doing their activity. So this is another way to work together with the local ranches in different activities, coexistence activities that can lead to a benefit to the ranchers themselves. So that's the way you need to think. You need to think a way that the rancher also got benefited.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: One of the most innovative examples unfolds at places like Estancia Seraguido, where traditional ranching now combines with conservation and tourism.
These forward thinking branches demonstrate that maintaining Patagonian pastoral traditions can coexist with protecting the predators that make this ecosystem unique. It's a modern echo of how indigenous communities once managed these landscapes. Showing that economic success and wildlife conservation can complement rather than conflict with each other.
True coexistence demands more than technical solutions. It requires transforming hearts and minds. As Nico told me, success means moving beyond merely stopping people from killing pumas. It aims to foster pride in having these magnificent cats share their land.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: Coexistence, I think is the long way to getting into a long term conservation of the ecosystem of and of the species. But is the way that I think that will last from for longer time. Because we have been trying this from laws that avoid hunting. But you can still see Puma hunting, legal or illegal. There are still people unhappy that hate the Puma. So the law doesn't changes. You need people to be proud of having puma on their properties. How you do that. So that's a big way how you change the set of mind. This sometimes cultural way of thinking on local people that could lead to having less pressure on pumas or any cult carnivore so that's a big loop. And the good way of going into coexistence is to changing people behavior, but but through their way of thinking, their perception, their cultural meaning.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: Sitting there in Nika's living room, watching the sun set over the fjord, while we talked about the future of puma conservation, I reflected on how this story embodies everything the root of parks of Patagonia strives to achieve. Beyond protecting beautiful places, the initiative transforms how we live with wild nature. The pumas of Torres del Painey serve as teachers, showing us new ways to share our planet one valley at a time.
The morning sun was shining bright when we turned onto the long drive leading to Estancia Seraguido, a hundred thousand hectare testament to what's possible when traditional ranching meets modern conservation.
To put that size in perspective, imagine a piece of land nearly twice the size of Torres Upaning national park itself.
As we pulled up to the historic main house, built in the early 1900s during Patagonia's sheep ranching boom, I couldn't help but think about how this place place embodies the transformation we're seeing across the region. For generations, this estancia, like most in Patagonia, saw pumas as the enemy. Every lost sheep was a reminder of the ongoing conflict between ranching and wildlife. But today, Suragido tells a different story.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Want to go home?
[00:22:36] Speaker A: I'm coming.
The property manager greeted us warmly and let us into a comfortable front room dominated by a beautiful rolling fireplace.
We settled in a chair surrounded by large windows that framed a breathtaking panorama of sweeping grasslands, with the famous three towers of Torres del Pine raising majestically in the distance.
As we were offered both rich coffee and traditional mate tea, our hosts shared the fascinating history of the estancia and a perspective that bridges old and new Patagonia.
The estancia has evolved beyond simply operating as a ranch, we learned as we toured the beautifully restored buildings. They're demonstrating the possibility of maintaining a working estancia while nurturing a thriving wildlife population.
This vision encompasses preserving the rich gaucho culture that has defined Patagonian ranching for generation.
Gauchos, the skilled horseman of South America's grasslands, emerged in the 18th century as nomadic, free spirited riders who mastered the art of working with horses and cattle across vast plains.
While Argentine gauchos might be more famous globally, Chilean gauchos develop their own distinct traditions, tools and techniques adapted to the region's challenging terrain.
During our tour, we learned that the gauchos represent the soul of Patagonia. Their knowledge of the land, their horsemanship and their traditions of self sufficiency are skills evolved over centuries to thrive in this divine, demanding environment.
The estancia believes preserving this cultural heritage holds equal importance to preserving the natural landscape. This cultural preservation manifests in many forms. At Seraguido, the estancia maintains traditional horseback riding techniques, sheep herding practices with dogs and the distinctive gaucho attire, including the signature beret like bona, the comforter's body bombachas, which are loose fitting trousers and handcrafted leather accessories.
Our tour included a traditional gaucho asado lunch, a feast that has been a centerpiece of estancia life for centuries. Lamb was slowly roasted over open coals, prepared with techniques passed down through generations of gauchos. The meal was complemented by casillers, a regional specialty made with black currants grown right on the property in their carefully tended gardens.
Food, we discovered, forms the centerpiece of the estancia's cultural identity. The asado transcends mere mealtime. It fosters community gatherings, storytelling and celebration of connection to the land.
Preservation at Cerroguido extends well beyond cultural traditions. The estancia has established a dedicated foundation with comprehensive programs for both natural and cultural heritage conservation. This commitment translates into action. Cerroguido stands among the pioneering ranches working with Panthera to test innovative solutions for living alongside pumas. Remember those livestock guardian dogs Nico mentioned? Here's where they're proving their worth. We watched as massive white perineum mountain dogs patrolled amongst the sheep. Their presence alone enough to make pumas think twice about approaching the flocks. We learned that these dogs have transformed their operation. They function as non lethal deterrents that protect the livestock while allowing the pumas to remain in their natural habitat. The foundation's biodiversity conservation extends extends beyond these guardian dogs. They've implemented an extensive camera trap monitoring system throughout the property, strategically placing cameras near rocks, ravines and hill edges where pumas are likely to pass. These cameras operate 24 hours a day, recording 30 second videos that allow researchers like Nico to identify individual pumas. They're also experimenting with innovative technology like fox light deterrents. Devices that emit random flashes of colored LED lights at night, simulating human presence and keeping predators at bay. These solar powered units represent another non lethal approach to predator management.
What distinguishes Serraguito truly is the transformation of wildlife from liability to assets. The same pumas that once brought only losses now attract wildlife photographers and tourists from around the world. The estancia offers puma tracking experiences that rival those in the national park, but with an added dimension. Visitors witness conservation working on private land, where wildlife and livestock needs require careful balancing.
Later that afternoon, we took a drive to the property's vast grasslands. A southern gray fox trotted across our path path and guanacos watched us from distant ridges. These animals serve as more than scenic additions to the landscape. They provide evidence of a healthy ecosystem supporting the complex food web that pumas need to thrive.
The success of places like Seruguiro opens an intriguing possibility for the future of the root of parks. Perhaps conservation pathways need not always run through national parks. Private lands could potentially form crucial corridors between protected areas, creating a truly connected landscape where both wildlife and traditional ways of life flourish.
As we concluded our visit and prepared to depart, I reflected on how Cerguito represents something larger than itself.
It demonstrates that conservation succeeds when embracing both ecological and cultural dimensions in an age of unprecedented environmental challenges. Perhaps this estancia in the heart of Patagonia reveals a more holistic way forward.
One that values both natural ecosystems and the human traditions that have evolved alongside them.
There's something powerful about watching the sunset over Torres del Paine.
As the light fades, the boundary between national park and private ranch disappears. In that moment, you see these landscapes as they truly are, one connected ecosystem where pumas don't recognize our human borders.
My time here has revealed something remarkable. Conservation extends beyond protecting pristine wilderness. Success comes through resources reimagining our relationship with wild places and the creatures that call them home.
From the innovative research being done by scientists like Nico to the transformation happening at places like Cerriguido, Patagonia pioneers new ways for humans and wildlife to thrive together.
Next time on Rewildology, we'll journey to the literal end of the Americas to to witness conservation history in the making as one of Chile's newest national parks takes shape. We'll explore the unique marine ecosystems where dolphins play and whales migrate. Meet the dedicated conservationists creating this coastal sanctuary, and discover how protecting the meeting point of two great oceans could reshape our understanding of marine and terrestrial conservation.
Until then, I'm Brooke Mitchell, and this has been another adventure on the root of parks of Patagonia.
Remember, in a world that sometimes seems to be losing its wild edges, places like this remind us of what's possible when we give nature a chance.
I want to invite you to become part of something bigger than just this podcast.
This series is actually one pillar of a larger initiative called rewildology's Project Patagonia, where conservation truly meets adventure Project Patagonia is built on three listen, Experience and Protect. You're already participating in the first Pillar by listening to this podcast series, but if you're inspired to go deeper, you can join us in the field for the second pillar experience.
In April 2026, I'll be leading a small group of just 10 people on an unforgettable expedition to trek Pumas and explore the majestic mountains of Torres del Paine National Park.
This intimate adventure includes expert led Puma tracking, meetings with conservation researchers, hiking through breathtaking landscapes, and even kayaking to the magnificent great Glacier. You'll literally follow in the footsteps of the stories you're hearing in this podcast.
The third pillar, Protect, is where your passion can translate into direct conservation impact.
Through our partnership with Panthera, the global wild cat conservation organization, your support helps fund crucial work to protect pumas and their habitats throughout Patagonia. Your donations help bridge divides between fragmented habitats, develop solutions for human wildlife conflict, implement wildlife corridors, and support cutting edge research.
Whether you choose to listen to this series, join our expedition, make a donation, or all three, you become part of a community dedicated to preserving one of Earth's most spectacular regions.
To learn more about Project Patagonia and how you can get involved, visit rewadology.com Project Patagonia Together we can ensure that the root of parks of Patagonia continues to thrive for generations to come.
