[00:00:00] Speaker A: It.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: Located in the southernmost region of South America, Patagonia spreads for a breathtaking 260,000 sq. Mi. It is characterized by stunning mountains, temperate rainforests, fjords, glaciers, step grasslands and a unique array of wildlife. The region is also a flagship location of a famous clothing brand with the same name.
The founder of North Face and East Spirit, Doug Tompkins, and his wife, Christine Tompkins, former CEO of Patagonia, have left a lasting legacy in Argentina and Chile, which we are going to explore today.
Welcome to Rewildology, the nature podcast that explores the human side of conservation, travel.
[00:00:48] Speaker C: And rewilding the planet.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: I'm your host, Brooke Mitchell, conservation biologist and adventure traveler.
Today is World Rewilding Day, and we're celebrating by releasing this very special episode with Carolina Morgato, the executive director of Rewilding Chile.
Carolina met Doug in the early 90s while working for a rafting company in Chile. At that meeting, Doug encouraged her to become an environmental activist to oppose a new dam that would destroy the very river she was selling tours on. Doug and Carolina stayed in touch, and in the mid 90s, Doug asked her to become a part of Tompkins conservation to work on important conservation and activist initiatives for Chile. Now Carolina is the executive director of Rewilding Chile, a fully independent NGO that branched from Tompkins conservation. Along with rewilding Argentina. Carolina and I explore so many topics, including her serendipitous meeting with Doug Tompkins and her early career with Tompkins. Conservation, the evolution of conservation and activism in Chile, the current state of Patagonia, how rewilding Chile and the root of the parks came to be, and the top projects they are working on today.
Be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you are listening, leave a rating and review so that more people can discover the show and share this episode with someone you think might enjoy today's discussion. If you share this episode on your social media, be sure to tag rewildology and rewilding Chile. We would love to hear from you.
All right, friends, without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Carolina.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: Well, hi, Carolina. Thank you so much for sitting down with me today and taking me through the exploration of this incredible ecosystem and this part of the world that I have totally fallen in love with and talking about the conservation of it as well. But before we get to today and the incredible work that you've done and.
[00:03:00] Speaker D: You'Re in the middle of take me to the beginning.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: Where does your journey begin that led you to today?
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Well, Brooke, thanks so much for inviting.
[00:03:11] Speaker E: Us, for inviting in Chile and me.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: To this really interesting and fun podcast.
My journey begins in Santiago de Chile.
[00:03:21] Speaker E: I'm 100% Chilean.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: I was born there, and I lived most of my life there, except for I've been a traveler all around the world. I'm trained as a special ed teacher.
[00:03:32] Speaker E: That was what I said in university has nothing to do with what I'm doing today.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: As I said, I lived in Canada for a couple of years. I was also a flight attendant, and.
[00:03:41] Speaker E: I worked on trips around the world for three years.
[00:03:43] Speaker F: Oh, my.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: I and I worked after finishing university.
[00:03:49] Speaker E: And all of that, I worked in adventure travel tourism for a while.
[00:03:53] Speaker F: And that's how I met Douglas Tompkins.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: And that's how I'm here. Yeah, I worked for a few years.
[00:03:59] Speaker E: In a rafting company, doing trips in what is our grand canyon here, which is the class five river that now is damned, which is the Bobillo river, and then the futile fu river.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: And the first trip I ever sold.
[00:04:12] Speaker E: Was to Douglas Tompkins. So that's how I met him.
[00:04:15] Speaker F: And he told me right away that the river that I was working know.
[00:04:22] Speaker E: Leading these trips and all of that.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: I wasn't a river guide.
[00:04:24] Speaker E: I was in charge of the office was being threatened by dams and that I should join a group that was being created to oppose those dams. So he also saw in me what I didn't see at that point, that I was an activist at heart.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: And that's how our story began.
[00:04:40] Speaker E: We became friends with that tompkins and then after five years know, continuing conversation.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: And he's supporting us in this group.
[00:04:51] Speaker F: That we created with many chilean activists. I came to work with the organization.
[00:04:58] Speaker D: Wow, talk about just a twist of fate.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: Because having done lots of different careers and my path, it sounds like yours is even more extreme.
[00:05:12] Speaker D: Why did you decided to work for.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: An adventure travel company that led you to meet Doug? Was there like a moment that you're like, I need to go back to Santiago or for you?
[00:05:23] Speaker D: Why did that part of your journey begin?
[00:05:26] Speaker A: Because I think that I finished university.
[00:05:30] Speaker E: Because I always believe that whatever you.
[00:05:32] Speaker F: Start, you have to finish.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: So I did that, but I never had a plan that I should do.
[00:05:40] Speaker E: This and that I was always open to opportunities, and traveling was an opportunity.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: And then a friend of mine, they.
[00:05:50] Speaker E: Decided to open a rafting company, which.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Was just beginning in Chile. And they offered me the position to open the office and just get the whole thing going. And so I accepted. I thought it was related to nature. It allowed me to get to know Chile because I knew the world much better than Chile at that point in my, you know, disconnecting with chillest nature.
[00:06:16] Speaker E: That really attracted me. So I accepted that position. And then life only makes sense when you look back.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: Hindsight is only 2020.
[00:06:26] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: So it all makes sense now why.
[00:06:29] Speaker E: That happened, how I met the Tompkins.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Do you remember when Doug Tompkins came into your office to book that rafting trip?
[00:06:37] Speaker F: Yes, I remember because, as I said before, it was the day we opened.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: The office to the know, because, oh.
[00:06:45] Speaker E: My God, we rented the office. We route out the programs with the owners. One of them was a river guide.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: A peruvian river guide. We published them in the newspaper, but.
[00:06:56] Speaker E: There was no Internet at that time. So you publish the ads in the newspaper, and who walks in, we open the doors.
[00:07:04] Speaker F: It was actually our first client. Not the second, not the third.
[00:07:09] Speaker E: It was the first trip we ever did.
[00:07:10] Speaker F: It was the first client.
[00:07:12] Speaker E: So, of course, I remember.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: And, you know, I met him, and.
[00:07:17] Speaker F: I thought after I knew what his.
[00:07:21] Speaker E: Plans were in Chile, I thought, I.
[00:07:23] Speaker F: Want to work for this guy.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: But it took some know, because I was engaged and committed to this other thing. And getting to know him, little by little allowed me also to understand what activism, conservation meant.
[00:07:37] Speaker F: So things develop with time.
[00:07:42] Speaker E: Okay.
[00:07:42] Speaker C: So I think maybe now to help set the stage for us to understand all of these layers.
[00:07:49] Speaker D: So first, what year was this?
[00:07:53] Speaker C: And then maybe, could you then describe the connection between the Tompkins and the famous brand that he started and why? And then also the conservation work.
[00:08:05] Speaker D: So maybe could you just explain that.
[00:08:08] Speaker C: Timeline a little bit for us so we can see the big picture?
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Sure.
Basically, I met Doug Tompkins in 1990, or maybe at the end of 1990, and I started working for them, Doug and Chris Tompkins. In 1995.
[00:08:24] Speaker E: When I met Doug, he wasn't with Chris yet.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Doug, at that time, had already sold spree and very early spree, the apparel company. And very early in his life, he.
[00:08:36] Speaker E: Had created the north face, the brand.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: It was a guide service in California when he created, but that he sold.
[00:08:45] Speaker F: Very early in his life.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: He had come to Chile all along.
[00:08:48] Speaker E: His life, to ski, to do first.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Descents, because he was a class five kayaker. So when he decided to quit his business career, he used to say, pay.
[00:09:03] Speaker F: The rent for living in his planet. He thought about Chile, and he came.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: To Chile looking for land.
[00:09:11] Speaker E: And that's how it all started.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: In the middle of this, he got.
[00:09:14] Speaker E: Together with Chris Tompkins.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Chris was one of the founders.
[00:09:18] Speaker E: I mean, from early beginning, he worked in Patagonia, Inc.
[00:09:20] Speaker F: The company.
[00:09:22] Speaker E: He was the CEO for 20 years of Patagonia. Inc. And I guess when they met, she also decided to give a shift.
[00:09:29] Speaker F: In their life, and they moved to Chile, to southern Chile.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: So when I met dad, I met.
[00:09:35] Speaker E: Him alone, and when I started working with him, he already was together with.
[00:09:40] Speaker F: Chris Tompkins, and I was hired as their personal assistant.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, how incredible. So you guys stayed in touch for four or five ish years before.
[00:09:53] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: Before you actually started working with them. And so was it then 95, when.
[00:09:58] Speaker D: They relocated to Chile, was around that?
[00:10:00] Speaker F: No, it was probably 93.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: 93.
So Doug was coming and checking out and land, or.
[00:10:14] Speaker E: When he came to Chile.
[00:10:15] Speaker F: He didn't come to Chile with a plan.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: I am going to create or help create national parks.
It was also part of his evolution.
[00:10:25] Speaker E: In terms of conservation. So when he came to Chile, for.
[00:10:28] Speaker F: Sure, he was a guy who used to surround with him like he used.
[00:10:33] Speaker E: To do with the first circle. So he was meeting with environmentalists in.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: Chile, and he wanted to know.
[00:10:38] Speaker F: And he was pretty quickly, he was.
[00:10:42] Speaker E: In the epicenter of everything that was going on in Chile.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: And because I started to work in.
[00:10:47] Speaker E: This company and this river was in threats of being also, he actually connected me with environmental movement in Chile. So he would come to Chile and we would do meetings.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: He was trying to support us.
[00:11:03] Speaker E: Very strong environmental, small, but a strong environmental movement.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: And actually, because I was working in these rivers and river rafting, anytime I.
[00:11:13] Speaker E: Stopped in the south of Chile, where he has his base in Chile, I.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Stopped by and say hi. So we continue this.
[00:11:19] Speaker E: It was a relationship, friends, colleagues in terms of activism.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: And he also supported us in this.
[00:11:28] Speaker E: Group we created that it was called the Bob Auction Group. He supported with full page ads in the newspaper so Chileans would know what was going on in this very. It was the first river conservation group.
[00:11:40] Speaker F: In Chile, so it was new. It was new to Chile.
[00:11:45] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: Talk about grassroots conservation activism. That's incredible.
[00:11:51] Speaker D: And I think this might be a.
[00:11:53] Speaker C: Great time to ask this particular question, because it sounds like even Doug.
[00:12:01] Speaker E: As.
[00:12:01] Speaker D: He became more and more just aware.
[00:12:04] Speaker C: Of the country and as you became more involved in conservation as well, that maybe the top conservation threats and issues became apparent to you.
[00:12:14] Speaker D: So what are those?
[00:12:16] Speaker C: What are the big things that rewatting Chile that you've been involved in? And have those changed since the 90s?
[00:12:23] Speaker D: Have things gotten worse?
[00:12:24] Speaker C: Have things gotten better?
[00:12:26] Speaker D: So maybe just give us a current.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: State of conservation in Chile, and maybe if that's changed in your three decades doing this.
[00:12:36] Speaker F: Well, as I said, I was much younger.
[00:12:40] Speaker E: Of course, I was young at the time.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: I met Doug and then I surrounded.
[00:12:44] Speaker E: Myself with environmental movement because we started this group.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: She also introduced us to other american.
[00:12:50] Speaker E: Foundations who supported us financially, because all the environmental movement in Chile is supported abroad.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: In Chile, the law to do environmental.
[00:13:02] Speaker F: Philanthropy is from last year. It's so know, and it's very limited.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: So he helped us with that. And I said the biggest issues were.
[00:13:12] Speaker F: Very common to an underdeveloped country where.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Your economy is based on natural resources.
[00:13:20] Speaker E: So big issues at that time in.
[00:13:22] Speaker F: Chile was the beginning of the salmon aquaculture business, especially here in the south.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: That is with very incipient.
[00:13:30] Speaker E: But you could see the effects that.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: That industry was having and would have.
[00:13:37] Speaker E: In the future in the environment. And another was, of course, the industrial culture. The plantations, the plantations of pine and eucalyptus, with eradication of the native forest to make wood chips to export. So that was super big in Chile. And I think those were the main issues.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Of course, mining in the north, you.
[00:13:59] Speaker E: Would see it less here in the south, where Jared and Chris came to work.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: But I think the issues of an.
[00:14:09] Speaker E: Extractive economy remain in Chile.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Remain. But of course, as climate change, it's more evident. I think climate change arrived because extinction.
[00:14:22] Speaker E: Crisis has been going on always, but it's not visible. Right.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: But climate change really came to show.
[00:14:29] Speaker E: Us what was really going on in the planet. And that, of course, has brought more awareness in a country like ours, has brought more conservation.
I think Tag and Chris have been.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: They have inspired the other Chileans to.
[00:14:46] Speaker F: Protect land, small scale, medium scale, mainly.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: For private parks, different than what they decided to do to donate all their.
[00:14:55] Speaker E: Land, but still is conserving land.
Are we in a better situation?
Yes and no.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: Yes and no, because still our country.
[00:15:06] Speaker E: Is based on an extractive economy. But I think in the part that.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: We are better is the awareness in.
[00:15:14] Speaker F: People, but at the same time, problems.
[00:15:17] Speaker E: Are getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
[00:15:18] Speaker F: So it's a hard question to answer.
[00:15:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I know that feeling. It feels like an uphill battle.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:15:26] Speaker C: All the time, every day, it's like just, we have to celebrate the little wins to keep us going.
[00:15:32] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: So then today, what are the pillars.
[00:15:36] Speaker D: Then, that you are focusing?
[00:15:38] Speaker C: What are the top issues that rebot in Chile is like? We have planted our flag on these things. These are what we're going to work.
[00:15:46] Speaker D: On to make better.
[00:15:48] Speaker F: Yes.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: Our mission and vision, it's big scale conservation.
[00:15:56] Speaker F: It was Doug and Chris, and we.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Remain, as a legacy foundation, the continuation.
[00:16:02] Speaker E: Of their work in Chile. So our mission remains as big scale conservation, as biggest as we can get.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: And we are focused in the territory.
[00:16:12] Speaker E: Which we call the root of parks of Patagonia, where 91% of the acreage.
[00:16:18] Speaker F: Protected under national park is located. So you would say, well, this is great.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: There's no problems. No, there are still problems.
[00:16:25] Speaker E: There are still threats, and we know.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: For sure that if we want to.
[00:16:30] Speaker F: Have an impact in Chile and in.
[00:16:32] Speaker E: The planet, we need to consolidate these ecological corridors in the biggest form of conservation. What we are innovating, I would say different than when Doug and Chris were.
[00:16:43] Speaker F: Working full time in Chile, is that.
[00:16:46] Speaker E: We continue to work with Tompkins conservation, with Chris's vision.
[00:16:50] Speaker F: We share everything with her.
[00:16:51] Speaker E: And she's in our board, she's the president of our board, is that we are focusing also on the ocean, on creating coastal marine parks. No, take zones.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: We haven't succeeded.
[00:17:04] Speaker E: We started very recently, our marine program started three years ago.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: But we know for sure that is a must if we want to create this green land for the planet, which.
[00:17:16] Speaker F: Is the root of parks of Patagonia.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: And the other thing, which is very.
[00:17:21] Speaker E: Important, and we've always done it, but we just call it different today.
[00:17:25] Speaker F: It's rewilding.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: We've always done ecological restoration, which has been called.
[00:17:31] Speaker E: But of course, rewilding. It's a term that is much more dynamic in its approach to ecological restoration.
[00:17:39] Speaker F: So one of our big goals is.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: To take rewilding at a country level and that it is embraced by Chile.
[00:17:49] Speaker F: As the way to do conservation.
[00:17:53] Speaker E: In know that it's focusing not only on a specific species or places, but more in processes and in accomplishes complete ecosystems, wherever you're working in conservation.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: So big scale conservation and rewilding as.
[00:18:11] Speaker F: A form to embrace this are our biggest goals.
[00:18:17] Speaker D: Amazing.
And one of the big things you.
[00:18:21] Speaker C: Just brought up and I want to spend some time on this, is the.
[00:18:24] Speaker D: Root of the parks, because, wow, is.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: This like one of the coolest initiatives I've ever heard of.
Not only is it cool, but it sounds insanely difficult. So how in the world did you all start with the establishment of national parks?
[00:18:42] Speaker D: Did it start with a private land.
[00:18:45] Speaker C: That was then protected into like a conservation easement type thing, or what was.
[00:18:50] Speaker D: Step number one to root of the parks?
[00:18:54] Speaker F: Well, step number one was buying land.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: The thing is that when Doug and Chris arrived in the south of Chile.
[00:19:01] Speaker E: In 1993, they established themselves here.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: So he was showing this land in.
[00:19:08] Speaker E: The middle of the fjords area with no road access.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: And when he bought the land and start flying around, because he was a.
[00:19:14] Speaker E: Pilot, he realized that adjacent land was owned by absentee owners.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Big, big chunks of land, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of acres that were.
[00:19:25] Speaker E: Bought in the 1920s, speculating that eventually there would be a road there and there would be lumber exploitation because it's really all growth forest.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: This, thank God, never happened.
And still there are no roads.
[00:19:40] Speaker F: But going back to your question, what.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Was the first thing to do to create a park?
[00:19:48] Speaker F: It's to buy big extensions of land. And not only that, but because of.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: The flying, because of the throughness, the thoroughness in planning this, it's also mapping.
[00:20:02] Speaker F: Out the territory and see the opportunities.
[00:20:06] Speaker E: Of big scale because it's something you don't find, especially in this really rich biodiversity area.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: And also with time, identifying public land that never to buy public land, but.
[00:20:20] Speaker E: As a way to approach the government.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: And said, I want to donate this to create a park. How about if you join with public land? And basically that has been our approach. It's donating but triggering bigger scale conservation.
[00:20:36] Speaker F: With adjacent public land.
[00:20:39] Speaker E: The other thing that is super important.
[00:20:40] Speaker F: When you create a park or when.
[00:20:42] Speaker E: You'Re in the process is to figure out your borders, your limits.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: So when you do your title study.
[00:20:51] Speaker F: You want to have super clear with.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: Your neighbor which is park and which.
[00:20:55] Speaker F: Is neighboring land, because this is really like faraway land.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Some of the people that where our neighbors didn't have titles because they went there in different colonization processes along the years.
[00:21:12] Speaker E: So we help those neighbors get their titles.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: So there will be clarity in the borders of the park and in the.
[00:21:19] Speaker E: Borders of the private land because parks need to be protected and respected.
[00:21:24] Speaker F: So I'm talking about 30 years of work. So that was really long.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: So this was the case in Pumalinda.
[00:21:33] Speaker E: Glasompins National park, and we ended up triggering.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: It's a park that is 1 million.
[00:21:38] Speaker F: Acres, of which we donated.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Not so good in the acres part, but of which we donated probably 700,000.
[00:21:48] Speaker C: Incredible.
[00:21:49] Speaker F: Well, this part of Chile, so you.
[00:21:52] Speaker E: Understand where the root of park is.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: You have to cross by ferry.
It's the last third of Chile that has more remoteness precisely because it doesn't have highways.
It's a combination of ferry and roads.
[00:22:09] Speaker E: So I guess that also led to.
[00:22:11] Speaker F: Protect a big part of this route of parks.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: When we started working in this section.
[00:22:17] Speaker E: Of Chile, there were already twelve national.
[00:22:20] Speaker F: Parks, and we have helped create, so far seven additional national parks.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: And this year we will be creating.
[00:22:27] Speaker E: Another one with the current administration.
[00:22:30] Speaker D: Everything you guys have done has been just so inspiring and incredible.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: But the root of the parks is the one that blows me away the most, because just one acquiring the land and then every single thing that comes.
[00:22:43] Speaker D: Along with that, like you said, like.
[00:22:45] Speaker C: Title delineations, who owns what, getting the government involved. You could own this land. But then what if the government said, no, we don't want this to be a national park?
[00:22:55] Speaker D: There's so many layers to that. So do you by chance know off.
[00:23:00] Speaker C: The top of your head how many millions of acres are conserved through the root of the parks or just an estimate?
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Yes, there are.
[00:23:09] Speaker E: I have it right here.
[00:23:12] Speaker F: So it's probably 23 million acres. Yes.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Of which we have triggered 10 million with our donation. So it's a big number. But the things weren't easy at the beginning when I started to work.
[00:23:27] Speaker E: I mean, these projects were super controversial.
[00:23:29] Speaker F: In Chile, we had everybody against us.
[00:23:33] Speaker E: There were so many conspiracy theories about what Zygon Chris's real intentions were. So it was pretty hard.
[00:23:41] Speaker F: It's pretty hard. But perseverance and actually doing what you said you were doing, it's the way.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: To this successful story.
But it was very difficult.
[00:24:01] Speaker F: One thing is that conservation alone.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Could be easier. But when you're also an activist and you're an outspoken person to criticize the.
[00:24:13] Speaker F: Destruction of nature, that is what brings.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: A lot of problems.
[00:24:16] Speaker E: And then Doug was very outspoken about the impact of the salmon industry because we were in the fjords area and we were seeing what was happening at.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: That time with our own eyes and.
[00:24:28] Speaker F: Also all the situation with the pine and eucalyptus replacement of the old growth.
[00:24:37] Speaker E: Forest, the clear cutting, basically, of the forest.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: So that brought us a lot of problems and controversies and conspiracy theories start to happen.
[00:24:47] Speaker E: And some of them were like, Doug.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: Was jewish, and he wanted to create.
[00:24:52] Speaker F: A jewish state in Patagonia that he. Yeah, yeah, pretty.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: No, they were really bad.
Other words, that he wanted to take all the granite and exchange it in.
[00:25:09] Speaker E: The New York stock market, or that.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: He wanted to take all the cows.
[00:25:13] Speaker E: Of the south of Chile and bring american bison.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Some were really.
[00:25:18] Speaker F: Huh.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: But they were very ridiculous in northern Argentina. I remember one that they said that.
[00:25:27] Speaker F: He wanted to make, because it was.
[00:25:28] Speaker E: The wetlands that we work in northern eastern Argentina, that he wanted to make a hole all the way to China to send all the know, like, really ridiculous stuff.
[00:25:39] Speaker F: But for some people, it can create.
[00:25:42] Speaker E: A lot of noise.
[00:25:45] Speaker F: It was super controversial because I think.
[00:25:50] Speaker E: Big scale conservation, it can be controversial.
[00:25:53] Speaker F: Anywhere because you have other people that.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: Have other ways of development and they.
[00:25:59] Speaker F: See a threat in big scale conservation.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: So that took a lot of our time.
[00:26:05] Speaker E: Had to defend ourselves in the press.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: We never hired, like, a communications agency.
Dax didn't believe in that. He thought that you have to put all your money in conservation, because at.
[00:26:20] Speaker F: The end of the day, you're going.
[00:26:22] Speaker E: To show with your own actions that.
[00:26:25] Speaker F: What you're saying you're doing is truth.
[00:26:28] Speaker D: Wow.
So your team, like, you all wrote.
[00:26:33] Speaker C: The responses back to the media.
[00:26:37] Speaker F: Wow.
[00:26:38] Speaker C: So this was, like, published in newspapers.
[00:26:41] Speaker D: And stuff that you guys were doing this stuff?
[00:26:46] Speaker C: Yes, actually.
[00:26:49] Speaker D: But accusing you of doing these unsavory.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: Know, like, at one point, they were saying, which was the one that Doug.
[00:27:00] Speaker E: Says hurt the most because he was.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: A super ethical person. Him.
[00:27:04] Speaker F: And know it was that they were.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: Threatening people to take them out of.
[00:27:10] Speaker F: Their land, kind of like with guns.
[00:27:12] Speaker E: And stuff, so he could buy the land.
[00:27:17] Speaker F: Of course, it was the opposite, but.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: It was really tough times, the 90s.
[00:27:24] Speaker E: Things took a shift probably around 2000, 2005.
[00:27:30] Speaker F: Things are really changing, and people start.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: At that point, there was this huge.
[00:27:39] Speaker E: Clear cut project supported by the government.
[00:27:41] Speaker F: In Fuego, and there was all this.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: In the newspaper, how people were giving.
[00:27:47] Speaker E: Really hard time to the projects associated to the Tompkins, but totally supporting this clear cut of all growth forest. And that created a lot of motion in public opinion.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: And then with time, we created the first national park in 2005.
[00:28:04] Speaker F: So it's Kircovalo National park.
[00:28:07] Speaker E: Meanwhile, we continue to work in Pumalin.
[00:28:09] Speaker F: Pumalin. We only created it in 2018 after.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: Many, many years of working on it, doing all the public infrastructure, everything.
[00:28:21] Speaker D: Okay. Wow. So tell me, if I understand correctly, Pumaline is essentially where Doug Tompkins and.
[00:28:30] Speaker C: The Tompkins conservation began. But it took this long?
[00:28:35] Speaker F: Yes. What is that?
[00:28:37] Speaker C: 20 years. 20 plus years for it to finally be recognized as a national park?
[00:28:41] Speaker F: No, it took that long because.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Not that long, but it took long.
[00:28:49] Speaker E: Because this is a project.
[00:28:51] Speaker F: First we created a nature sanctuary, that.
[00:28:55] Speaker E: Designation, so we could show to people that our intentions were clear.
[00:29:00] Speaker F: There wasn't the possibility at the beginning.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: Of creating a national park because we have so much against political. All the political world was against us.
[00:29:11] Speaker E: So with time, also, we wanted to create that, and Chris wanted to donate.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: A full functioning part to Chile.
[00:29:18] Speaker E: So it took us all those years to create all the public infrastructure, trails.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: Little cabanas, camping areas.
[00:29:26] Speaker E: We would charge one dollars for people.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: To come and camp because Doug said.
[00:29:30] Speaker F: That people really, if you sleep under.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: An all growth forest, that changes your life. So he wanted to give the opportunity to everybody.
[00:29:38] Speaker F: So it was a process.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: In between, we were creating national parks.
[00:29:42] Speaker E: In Argentina, and in between, we bought in 2004, we bought this huge sheep.
[00:29:50] Speaker F: Estancia, in southern Patagonia, and that was also very controversial.
[00:29:57] Speaker E: Many business people got together to see.
[00:30:00] Speaker F: If they could beat against us.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: So we wouldn't buy it to turn.
[00:30:04] Speaker F: It into a national park. We ended up buying it.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: It's already Patagonia National park that probably.
[00:30:10] Speaker E: You will see when you come.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: We turned a ship, stancia into a.
[00:30:14] Speaker E: Park in a process of 14 years.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: We took down, like, 400 fences, exotic species. We bought it with 25,000 sheep and cows, and we reduced it progressively because.
[00:30:30] Speaker E: We didn't want to ruin the market. Meanwhile, we started all the monitoring process of all the species that are there, some of them on the verge of extinction.
[00:30:39] Speaker F: So it took us 14 years until we were ready to say, we are.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: Ready to donate it as a full functioning national park.
[00:30:47] Speaker E: So of all the parks we have helped create, Pumalin and Patagonia national parks, we donated them with full infrastructure.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: And it took us many years because.
[00:30:57] Speaker E: Doug died in 2015.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: We were in the process of donating and he died. And then it took us three other.
[00:31:03] Speaker E: Years, and we were able to donate everything in 2018.
[00:31:10] Speaker D: I can only imagine what that was like for all of you to lose.
[00:31:16] Speaker C: Such an important figure. Well, in your life at that time.
[00:31:20] Speaker D: If you started working with them, and.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: I mean, that's 20 years.
[00:31:24] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:31:25] Speaker C: Working directly with them.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: 22 years at that time when Doug died.
[00:31:29] Speaker F: Yeah, 29 years now.
[00:31:33] Speaker D: Incredible.
[00:31:34] Speaker C: And you guys are still living.
[00:31:36] Speaker D: His legacy is still here.
[00:31:38] Speaker C: Like, I'm sitting down with you and look at how much you've accomplished even since then.
Everyone has their own beliefs in an afterlife, if there is one.
[00:31:49] Speaker D: But if there is one, I'm sure.
[00:31:50] Speaker C: He'S smiling on all of you right now.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
He was a man who. He was a real visionary and a.
[00:32:00] Speaker F: Real, like a huge impact in our lives. Yes.
[00:32:06] Speaker A: And then of know, the fact that Chris is with us is so important.
[00:32:11] Speaker E: For know, it was time for the team in Argentina and the team in.
[00:32:15] Speaker F: Chile to go independent.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: And she even chose the know.
[00:32:19] Speaker E: Rewilding Argentina.
[00:32:20] Speaker F: Rewilding Chile, which I thought it was pretty visionary also, because it's what we've.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Been doing, but we just didn't call it that way.
[00:32:29] Speaker F: And she saw it as a succession.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Plan because she says, what if I die?
[00:32:35] Speaker F: I want teams to be totally in.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Charge, totally empowered to follow this vision.
[00:32:44] Speaker F: So that was really strategic, too.
[00:32:47] Speaker C: Two visionary people in our.
Incredible.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: Gosh, that's so both, you know, one from North Face, the other one from Patagonia.
[00:32:57] Speaker E: They are also super.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: They come from really cool.
[00:33:05] Speaker E: Isn't. Is there any better business than mean? And they're huge collaborators of us, of course, because they're family with know Yvonne, Melinda.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: They had a tremendous impact in our.
[00:33:18] Speaker E: Work, in our lives in general.
[00:33:19] Speaker F: It's been really.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: And I just out of curiosity, is rewatting Chile and rewilding Argentina still connected with either of those brands?
Do they donate or anything? Or are you just fully independent now?
[00:33:35] Speaker D: I guess just so that we can.
[00:33:37] Speaker C: Understand as, like, if I'm going and I want to buy a new piece.
[00:33:42] Speaker D: Of something as part of my Patagonia or north face bag or puffy, does.
[00:33:50] Speaker C: That go back to help rewatting Chile? Rewatting Argentina? I'm just out of curiosity.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: I'm just definitely, definitely.
They have collaborated with us even before Yvonne and Melinda decided to put all.
[00:34:04] Speaker E: Of this in this foundation.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: The whole change they did with their businesses, they collaborated before, and they continue to collaborate.
[00:34:11] Speaker F: Yes.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: The foundations.
[00:34:12] Speaker E: Yes. The businesses, the foundations, the whole complex thing.
[00:34:18] Speaker F: Yes, in many ways, yes.
[00:34:22] Speaker A: And Chile and Argentina, we are totally independent organization. And of course, each of the countries.
[00:34:27] Speaker E: Have their own politics, their own.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: We have some areas, especially when it comes to wildlife, some actions we can.
[00:34:37] Speaker E: Do together as a country, because in.
[00:34:39] Speaker F: Some parts, we are. Well, no, I mean, we are bordering countries.
[00:34:44] Speaker E: And so we are looking into bringing.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Darwin's Ria into Chile from the argentine project just to improve the genetics. And, of course, everything that relates to.
[00:34:57] Speaker E: Tompkins conservation, it's the three of know.
[00:34:59] Speaker F: Tompkins conservation, the one in Chile and Argentina.
[00:35:03] Speaker E: Whatever goes in country, each organization does their own thing.
[00:35:09] Speaker C: That's so cool, especially to hear how far you all have come since day one. And now we have these three incredibly strong conservation organizations all working together for the same common goal, and then at the same time, being backed by these amazing outdoor clothing brands that have a fantastic reputation. So I hope that now those first ten years of what sounded like hell were worth it.
[00:35:39] Speaker A: Every step of the way has been.
[00:35:41] Speaker F: Worth it, because I just feel so.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Proud of everything we've done to have.
[00:35:50] Speaker F: A job, but it's not even a.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: Job, because it's your life, and everything.
[00:35:54] Speaker F: You do is just so meaningful because it doesn't have to do with me, has to do with every form of life. And to say I've just been so lucky and whatever, it's been hard.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: I guess I'm also a tough cookie.
[00:36:12] Speaker E: So, yeah, it's hard, but it's way worth it.
[00:36:17] Speaker F: Yeah, it's way worth.
[00:36:19] Speaker C: You're amazing, Carolina.
So you just dropped a little bit of a hint, and I would like to talk about this topic further. So wildlife restoration specifically. So, like, reintroducing species and just the wildlife monitoring that you're doing, could you teach us a little bit more about that? What are the species that you are working most on?
[00:36:42] Speaker D: Does it vary by park to park?
[00:36:45] Speaker C: Do you reintroduce species, or is it all monitoring? Yeah. So I would love to hear that from the wildlife standpoint.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Yes, I'll tell you.
[00:36:53] Speaker E: Also related to Patagonia National park, because.
[00:36:56] Speaker A: I think to tell you about our wildlife program through a project, it has a better understanding. As I was telling you before, we.
[00:37:06] Speaker E: Bought this 150 acre sheep, stancia, that.
[00:37:11] Speaker F: Sat between two national reserves, two protected.
[00:37:15] Speaker A: Areas, not in the highest category, but.
[00:37:18] Speaker E: Two protected areas of Chile.
[00:37:20] Speaker F: So when we bought this, you know.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: That and Chris have been camping around.
[00:37:27] Speaker F: There for years and always like, this.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Should be a park because it's patagonian step.
[00:37:32] Speaker E: It's very little represented in Chile in terms of conservation. So when we bought the ship stancia.
[00:37:38] Speaker F: And we said, okay, the plan is.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: To turn this into a park and.
[00:37:44] Speaker E: Donate it to the government.
[00:37:45] Speaker F: So this donation, plus the two national reserves adjacent, become one national park, which.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: Is Patagonia National park.
[00:37:53] Speaker F: It's already a reality. But to do that, one of the.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: Reasons we bought this farm was because one of the last population of the Wemul deer, which is a very emblematic.
[00:38:05] Speaker E: Deer in Chile, and it's on the verge of extinction. There's only 1500 wemal deers left between Chile and Argentina, and today, 10% of that population is in Patagonia National park. So when we bought this dancia, we.
[00:38:20] Speaker F: Said, this is our priority, to take.
[00:38:22] Speaker E: Care of this species. We need to start monitoring this species.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Because as we take down the 25,000.
[00:38:29] Speaker F: Sheep, progressively, we will need to understand.
[00:38:32] Speaker E: The interaction between the top carnivore, which.
[00:38:35] Speaker F: Is the puma, and the wembledia.
[00:38:38] Speaker A: So this is a motivation to start.
[00:38:40] Speaker F: The monitoring program as we take down the sheep, the sheep and the cows.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: From estancia year by year, because you don't want to ruin the market.
[00:38:51] Speaker F: As I said before, we color pumas.
[00:38:54] Speaker E: We color, we muldiers, we put colors.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: Monitoring colors, and we have our own park arts, right? Because we run the park at that.
[00:39:03] Speaker F: Time, it wasn't a national park yet.
[00:39:05] Speaker A: And we established, with our wildlife director.
[00:39:09] Speaker E: Christian Sauce, we established this program because.
[00:39:12] Speaker F: We wanted to see if, by taking us down the fences, selling out the.
[00:39:20] Speaker E: Cows and the puma, what was going.
[00:39:22] Speaker F: To be the behavior of the puma.
[00:39:25] Speaker E: With the wemuldia which is a very.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: Shy deer, and very low populations.
[00:39:30] Speaker F: It happens that as we took down.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: The fences, also the guanacos, which is.
[00:39:37] Speaker E: A camellid, start coming down from the mountain and start populating the valley again, which is amazing. The grasslands start to recover.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: The biggest patagonian rewilding project that you can find around. And we realize by years, because since 2004, until today, we continue this monitoring.
[00:39:58] Speaker F: Program that pumas eat mainly wanacos.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: We also, in between, we did many things to be successful in this monitoring program. As we see the Wanakos come back.
[00:40:14] Speaker E: We color the pumas. We see that we have about 30 pumas residents.
[00:40:18] Speaker F: What is their behavior day and night.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: How that relates to the population of women? We also find that we have an.
[00:40:26] Speaker E: Almost local extinction of Darwin's ria.
[00:40:28] Speaker A: Darwin's ria, they go along with the.
[00:40:30] Speaker F: Wanako.
[00:40:33] Speaker E: They do the dispersing of the seeds.
[00:40:36] Speaker F: So the patagonian step come back.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: So we do that. We see that they're in very low.
[00:40:41] Speaker E: Number, less than ten species in the border. So we create a reproduction center of the Darwin shria.
[00:40:48] Speaker F: We collect eggs from another patagonian step valley north of there, and we incubate those eggs. We bring them and we bring them.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: And they are born there, and they're raised by the fathers, the male, they incubate the eggs and they raise the chicks. So we bring that. And today we have over 70 Darwin tria roaming free in the territory.
[00:41:18] Speaker E: But we continue this.
[00:41:19] Speaker A: We continue this because not only you want a strong population, but also the distribution of that adult population, which we.
[00:41:26] Speaker F: Are just starting to achieve.
We continue to monitor the pumas today.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: But we do it also today, because.
[00:41:36] Speaker E: The park is open to the public and it's already a national park, and there's people visiting. We also monitor to see the interaction.
[00:41:44] Speaker F: With visitors, with humans, the interaction with.
[00:41:48] Speaker E: Wildlife, but the interaction also with humans.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: So we can provide information together with.
[00:41:53] Speaker E: National parks, so there are environmental education.
[00:41:57] Speaker F: With people, so they know how to behave.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: And when they see a puma, they're.
[00:42:02] Speaker E: Happy to see it. And when you see a puma, you say, this is a complete ecosystem and.
[00:42:06] Speaker F: You don't feel threatened. So just to answer your question before we don't have an extinction.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: Chile, it's like an island because of the Andes mountain.
[00:42:17] Speaker F: So we don't have huge extinction, especially in the root of parks, but we.
[00:42:23] Speaker E: Do have sometimes almost local extinction.
[00:42:25] Speaker F: And we work to strengthen small populations. So with the Wemul deer, we continue to work there.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: We have the monitoring, we see how.
[00:42:35] Speaker E: They are starting to move north. We are working in making those corridors stronger for them.
[00:42:42] Speaker F: But also we identify, along the route.
[00:42:46] Speaker E: Of parks, another ten sub populations of Wemundia.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: Today, the Wemund population is 10% of its original. There's only, as I told you, 1500.
[00:42:56] Speaker F: Left between Chile and Argentina, and in.
[00:43:00] Speaker E: Chile, probably 700, and the rest in Argentina. So we identify these ten sub populations and we are already working in five of them.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: And with active management, which is rewilding.
[00:43:11] Speaker E: It's active management.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: So you eliminate threats, right?
[00:43:15] Speaker F: You take care of the dogs and.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Cows and the defense threats that they.
[00:43:21] Speaker F: Compete or they attack these species.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: We have park guards and we work.
[00:43:26] Speaker E: With an agreement with the government on this national Wemul corridor approach.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: We also just finished, as we're speaking today, the construction of the Wemul rehab.
[00:43:39] Speaker F: Center, because of all the threats and.
[00:43:42] Speaker E: The accidents and the things that happen to the Wemul.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: So we work that also with the.
[00:43:46] Speaker E: Government, with the wildlife agency and with national parks.
[00:43:50] Speaker A: Those are our main species.
[00:43:52] Speaker E: We have the Darwin Shria, we have the wemul. We have the top carnivore, which is the puma.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: We're also working with Pantera, the international organization.
[00:44:03] Speaker E: We just put 100 camera traps in.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: Pumalin, and we just moved those 100.
[00:44:07] Speaker F: Camera traps to Patagonia to establish like a baseline study of small cats, because.
[00:44:14] Speaker E: There'S very little information in the south of Chile.
[00:44:17] Speaker A: So we work with that too. We are in the process of analyzing.
[00:44:22] Speaker E: The information from those 100 camera traps. We work with University of Chile in.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: The analyzing of all of our information.
[00:44:29] Speaker F: Of camera traps along the route of parks. We also do census of these different.
[00:44:37] Speaker A: Species, especially the wanakos, which are a.
[00:44:40] Speaker F: Very good indicator of the state of the patagonian step.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: We do that as a year or so. Part of our monitoring process.
[00:44:50] Speaker E: We are now working with amphibious.
[00:44:53] Speaker A: We are doing a baseline study of the Darwin's frog, which is about this.
[00:44:58] Speaker F: Big, 1 cm small, and all the.
[00:45:02] Speaker E: Other amphibious in Pumalinda, Lasomkins National park, because amphibious are a very good indicator and very affected by climate change, and very good indicator of the state of.
[00:45:12] Speaker F: The art, of the ecosystem.
[00:45:14] Speaker E: So we are starting in Pumalim, but.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: We are doing the study along the.
[00:45:17] Speaker F: Route of parts, step by step.
[00:45:21] Speaker E: What other species? We are starting to work in the.
[00:45:24] Speaker F: Southern tip of Chile with Reddit goose.
[00:45:28] Speaker E: Canken, Colorado, which is on the verge.
[00:45:30] Speaker F: Of extinction too, and doing actions to.
[00:45:33] Speaker A: Eliminate threats and see where we can.
[00:45:36] Speaker F: Go with this species, all related to the different national parks we are working on.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: So we're working with, I say with.
[00:45:44] Speaker E: I probably forgot to mention some of.
[00:45:46] Speaker F: Them, but we work in total with seven species right now, different species.
[00:45:52] Speaker C: Wow, that is incredible. And then on the ecological side, I'm assuming then, because to bring back wildlife, you have to have good ecosystems, so you're doing a great job of removing invasive species. I don't know much about these ecosystems, is one of the main ways to restore it. Planting trees or just like planting native. Just planting stuff. But what is that stuff in that?
[00:46:16] Speaker A: I mean, when we started Pumalin, going back to Pumalin, Pumalin, as I said, it's where the Andes mountains come straight into the ocean.
[00:46:25] Speaker E: So you have a lot of vertical.
[00:46:26] Speaker F: Worlds with all growth forests and very little valleys, but very few valleys.
[00:46:34] Speaker A: But those few valleys, those were people.
[00:46:37] Speaker E: Inhabited with those colonization processes I was telling you about.
[00:46:41] Speaker A: So those valleys were very trashed when.
[00:46:45] Speaker E: We started making Pumalim park, because people.
[00:46:48] Speaker F: Were just left there with not a lot of aid.
[00:46:52] Speaker E: So people would cut the trees to make their houses, to make firewood, to.
[00:46:56] Speaker A: Sell wood, so you could see that.
[00:46:59] Speaker E: The valleys were very trashed.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: So what we did in Pumalim park.
[00:47:04] Speaker F: We did a reforestation program, but we.
[00:47:08] Speaker A: Created our own tree nursery.
[00:47:10] Speaker F: We collected the seeds and we made the own trees to reproduce the temporary rainforest that we were trying to reforestate, restore rewild.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: And it's been pretty successful. It's been very successful. I mean, you can't tell the difference today. And in Cape Forward, the future Cape.
[00:47:31] Speaker E: Forward national parks that we are building on the Strait of Magallion, that we are making it with this administration, we are starting a restoration program of savantarctic forest.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: There's only about, I would say, 300.
[00:47:45] Speaker E: Acres that are damaged because of different human actions.
[00:47:50] Speaker A: And so we are starting also a.
[00:47:52] Speaker E: Tree nursery with the National Park Service.
[00:47:57] Speaker A: Tree nursery program, so we can restore.
[00:48:00] Speaker E: Those approximately 300 acres of sountactive forest.
[00:48:04] Speaker F: So it looks pristine this time, making.
[00:48:09] Speaker C: Me even more excited for when I come down.
[00:48:12] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:48:13] Speaker A: So we do it. And as I said, with all the.
[00:48:16] Speaker F: Actions we did to turn sheep estancia.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: Into a national park that brought 100,000.
[00:48:25] Speaker F: Acres of patawanian step, because you take.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Down the threats, which would be, of course, cows and sheep, that's what they eat, grass and the local endemic species.
[00:48:37] Speaker F: That come back, like the wanako, like Darwin Tria.
[00:48:41] Speaker E: And that is all a collaboration process, because that's what we see in nature. It's all collaboration between different species.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: It's what happened there. And now you have this incredible patagonian step full of one aquas and the.
[00:48:56] Speaker F: Species from the place, and it just looks amazing. You have to see it with your own eyes.
[00:49:02] Speaker C: Sounds beautiful. So we have large scale land protection, we have wildlife restoration, and we have ecological restoration in marine ecosystems and on land. Now, there's one big aspect of rewilding.
[00:49:19] Speaker D: That I also want to ask about.
[00:49:21] Speaker C: And that's the human side of this.
So how does rewilding Chile, how do you engage with local communities, especially around these national parks? Like, what are you seeing? Are you still getting pushback? Are things changing?
[00:49:36] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:49:37] Speaker C: Tell me about the human.
[00:49:39] Speaker A: So, so our community outreach, if we can call it somehow, when you describe.
[00:49:45] Speaker E: What'S the work of rewilding Chile, it's.
[00:49:46] Speaker F: Big scale park making.
[00:49:50] Speaker A: Ecological restoration, rewilding.
[00:49:52] Speaker E: And community work, and, of course, activism.
[00:49:55] Speaker A: Because that's part of it.
[00:49:56] Speaker F: Right. But our community outreach program has taken.
[00:50:01] Speaker A: Many, many forms along the years.
[00:50:03] Speaker E: At one point, we had 450 people working with us when we were in the process of building Pumalina and Patagonia.
[00:50:10] Speaker F: Park, and that is neighboring people and.
[00:50:13] Speaker A: Of course, some people from abroad, because.
[00:50:15] Speaker F: It'S a lot of people.
[00:50:15] Speaker E: Right?
[00:50:16] Speaker F: So when we started, we did folk festivals so we can promote the culture.
[00:50:26] Speaker A: And the love for your place. So we did a lot of that. Nine different folk festivals in the pumalim area.
[00:50:34] Speaker F: I loved it.
It was eleven years that it took.
[00:50:39] Speaker E: Us to do all those festivals where.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: We would discuss folklore and the link.
[00:50:43] Speaker E: Between folklore, culture, and your own respect, identification and love for your place, because it all starts there. How are you going to protect something.
[00:50:53] Speaker F: If you don't love it?
[00:50:54] Speaker A: So Doug and Chris were super innovative in this.
[00:50:57] Speaker E: We did a lot of theater in rural schools, greenhouses, because environmentalism starts where you eat.
[00:51:08] Speaker A: Greenhouses, organic agriculture.
We did, like, garbage cans for the little towns around.
[00:51:17] Speaker F: We did the transformation of a village.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: Of Elillio, yellow town, Ela Marillo. We transformed that village, all the houses.
[00:51:26] Speaker E: And the gardens in a little touristic.
[00:51:29] Speaker F: Village so people can see that.
[00:51:33] Speaker E: But today, rewild in Chile, our community outreach program, we have two things.
[00:51:39] Speaker F: It's called Friends of parks, because what.
[00:51:41] Speaker E: We want to create is a community.
[00:51:45] Speaker F: That, through environmental education, falls in love.
[00:51:50] Speaker E: By knowing the species.
[00:51:53] Speaker A: The frogs, the trees, the birds and everything. They fall in love and they get.
[00:51:59] Speaker E: To know, and they transform themselves in the first line of defense of their territory.
[00:52:03] Speaker A: So we work through environmental education.
[00:52:07] Speaker E: Right now, we are working with five communities. We hope to work all along.
[00:52:11] Speaker A: We have a 20 year program to.
[00:52:12] Speaker E: Work all along the route of parks.
[00:52:15] Speaker A: In those parks that have visitation, right? That have access. You have access, you have a community.
[00:52:21] Speaker E: And you want to link the community with the park.
[00:52:23] Speaker A: And you want visitors not only to.
[00:52:25] Speaker E: Visit the park, but to visit the community.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: So we work with them and we.
[00:52:29] Speaker F: Also do in a second phase, as.
[00:52:32] Speaker A: I say, in the first one, it's a lot of we take, especially in geology, in geography, in birds, in culture, how this park started, who were the initial inhabitants.
[00:52:44] Speaker F: Just know your place and love your place. It's been incredible.
[00:52:49] Speaker A: And in the second stage, what we do is we are certifying along with.
[00:52:55] Speaker E: The national parks and everything, guides, tourist guides for those parks, so people can.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: See, so young people can see that.
[00:53:02] Speaker E: They can have a future there, that.
[00:53:04] Speaker A: They don't have to go away to have a job.
[00:53:06] Speaker E: It's been an incredible experience.
[00:53:08] Speaker F: And also we work with handcrafts, like.
[00:53:12] Speaker A: How their handcrafts can be inspired in nature. And we work with a specialist in that. And it's been very beautiful with Doug.
[00:53:19] Speaker E: And Chris for 25 years.
[00:53:21] Speaker F: We had a network of kneaders and.
[00:53:25] Speaker E: We sold those things in the parks we were creating.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: Now we are back to that idea.
[00:53:30] Speaker E: And work with a woman.
[00:53:34] Speaker F: If you don't know, we find a specialist.
[00:53:36] Speaker E: We teach you so you can make.
[00:53:39] Speaker F: A better product, so you can have.
[00:53:42] Speaker A: An economic life where you live. That is in these little towns near.
[00:53:47] Speaker F: To the national park.
[00:53:48] Speaker E: So that's how we work with people. And of course, we have lots of people working with us.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: We are starting next year a volunteer program again.
[00:53:56] Speaker E: We did have it with Thompson's conservation, but we became independent.
[00:54:03] Speaker A: We had to regroup, rethink and grow very organically.
[00:54:10] Speaker F: So we do have some volume, mainly.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: People doing their thesis. Not their thesis, but when you finish.
[00:54:17] Speaker F: Your career, you have to work.
[00:54:20] Speaker A: So we have people in the reproduction center.
[00:54:23] Speaker F: We have specialists that come and they.
[00:54:25] Speaker E: Can report to the universities with the work they do with us. But we hope to start a volunteer program next year.
Oh my gosh, that's incredible.
[00:54:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a lot.
[00:54:38] Speaker F: Yes.
[00:54:39] Speaker C: So it sounds like, I would assume then hopefully all those negative newspaper will be online now. Articles of rewilding Chile and all those things.
[00:54:53] Speaker D: Hopefully a lot of those are gone now.
[00:54:55] Speaker C: Are they settled? Do you still have any of that kind of pushback or is it a lot quieter now?
[00:55:00] Speaker A: No, it's quiet. It's quieter. I think we are an organization that is.
[00:55:06] Speaker F: And of course, Chris is like an.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: Idol in know and Doug very well respected.
[00:55:12] Speaker F: But there are issues that are going.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: To remain because they're very emotional, like.
[00:55:19] Speaker F: For people that people in Patagonia, their.
[00:55:24] Speaker E: Great grandparents and their parents, they all did sheep farming.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: And for them, it's their culture. For them, it's very hard for them, even if it's not their land, they.
[00:55:34] Speaker E: Don'T own that land.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: It's very hard.
[00:55:37] Speaker E: The change of the culture going from being a sheep farmer to conservation.
[00:55:45] Speaker A: For some people, it's very hard to.
[00:55:46] Speaker E: Take because I think it's very emotional.
[00:55:49] Speaker A: Maybe your grandfather or your great grandparent was a hero. He moved to these really isolated areas.
[00:55:55] Speaker E: To start their work.
[00:55:56] Speaker F: And suddenly people think that maybe because.
[00:55:59] Speaker A: You'Re doing conservation, you're looking down on that area.
[00:56:02] Speaker E: But the truth of the matter is that areas are totally overgraced after 100 and some years.
[00:56:09] Speaker A: But I do understand it because it's.
[00:56:12] Speaker E: Not rational, it's more emotional.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: That has to do with your culture, with your ancestors.
[00:56:19] Speaker E: And sometimes it's hard to take.
[00:56:20] Speaker A: In general, I would say we're a.
[00:56:22] Speaker E: Very well respected organization. Yes.
[00:56:25] Speaker C: And I totally empathize with, you know, a lot of that happens all over the world. We deal with that a lot in the United States as well and everywhere.
[00:56:34] Speaker D: Like our rural community.
[00:56:36] Speaker C: And I get, like, I completely get it.
[00:56:38] Speaker D: I grew up with people that were farmers and a lot of them are.
[00:56:41] Speaker C: Currently dealing with commercialized farming and keeping your doors open. So I get it. And the big wolf reintroductions that are happening in the US, so people would feel threatened by that. But hopefully all of these other positive things and as generations move forward, the conservation and just celebration of what you have in Chile will continue.
[00:57:05] Speaker D: Like that will be the culture.
[00:57:07] Speaker A: Exactly. So what we're trying, the root of parks, of Patagonia, it's an idea launched.
[00:57:13] Speaker E: By Doug in 2015 that what hopes.
[00:57:16] Speaker F: Is to not replace, not change, but.
[00:57:20] Speaker A: Inspire another way of developing economic development.
[00:57:25] Speaker E: That goes along with nature and not against nature. That's all it is.
[00:57:29] Speaker F: How do we put value in big.
[00:57:32] Speaker A: Scale conservation, national parks?
[00:57:35] Speaker F: And how do we make also a.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: Good living for people around these areas? And that's the root of park. It's a great marketing idea. It's a great vision of a territory. It's a reality.
[00:57:48] Speaker F: I don't know.
[00:57:49] Speaker E: This country is truly spectacular. It's beautiful. It's all there. Let's put energy in something that doesn't.
[00:57:56] Speaker F: Destroy, you know, respect nature.
[00:58:00] Speaker A: And that's the whole idea of promoting the rural parts of Patagonia.
[00:58:03] Speaker E: And this year, not last year, now, it was taken by the chilean government.
[00:58:07] Speaker A: And it's a ten year plan to do this signage. And it's becoming a reality.
Fantastic.
[00:58:15] Speaker F: Because it only does good. It only does good.
[00:58:20] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:58:21] Speaker C: This is just such an inspiring story. And for you to have been there since pretty much day one, which I think that is such a unique perspective as well.
[00:58:31] Speaker D: It's rare that today we can meet.
[00:58:34] Speaker C: Somebody that has seen the evolution of.
[00:58:37] Speaker D: This since 1995 or even before that.
[00:58:40] Speaker C: When you're working in that rafting company and Doug made you aware of these big threats to your river that you.
[00:58:48] Speaker D: Worked on, in hindsight, and I did.
[00:58:51] Speaker C: Want to ask you a question. What has it been like for you.
[00:58:54] Speaker D: Becoming the executive director of rewilding Chile?
[00:59:01] Speaker F: Avis.
[00:59:05] Speaker A: There was one thing about working.
[00:59:07] Speaker E: With Doug and Chris that it was.
[00:59:09] Speaker A: Also I was hired their assistant, but both of them are generalist, so they don't hire specific people for a specific job.
[00:59:19] Speaker F: They're generalist.
[00:59:21] Speaker A: You come in, you like to do that, and you like to do this.
[00:59:24] Speaker F: Other thing, and you can do it.
[00:59:26] Speaker A: Go ahead and do it.
[00:59:27] Speaker F: So they don't never put a roof to me.
[00:59:29] Speaker E: So I was their assistant.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: I had, like, five different presentation cards.
[00:59:34] Speaker E: I was the sales, because we did a lot of productive projects to generate local labor.
[00:59:39] Speaker A: So we did honey, organic honey organic jam.
[00:59:42] Speaker F: So I was the sales manager.
[00:59:44] Speaker A: I was the communications director, and I was the person who executed whatever they wanted to do. The developing of all the tourism in.
[00:59:53] Speaker E: The parks, too, because we were a small team, and we started to grow, especially more on the field than on the know.
[01:00:00] Speaker F: So I think it was a natural.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: Evolve in my career with them that when Doug wasn't here, that I would take that place.
[01:00:11] Speaker F: Nevertheless.
[01:00:14] Speaker A: It'S been really hard for me because I feel very responsible, not only.
[01:00:20] Speaker E: For all the team, because we have to fundraise for the team and for the programs and for the parks. And I feel super responsible for Doug and Chris'legacy.
[01:00:30] Speaker A: I can't imagine myself just walking away.
[01:00:33] Speaker E: Know, whatever happens to all they did here. So in that sense, it's really hard.
[01:00:40] Speaker F: I would say that, but.
[01:00:44] Speaker A: I feel very natural in this position.
[01:00:48] Speaker F: I'm not an expert.
[01:00:50] Speaker A: All I know is, because I've been.
[01:00:52] Speaker F: Here a long time.
[01:00:56] Speaker A: And I feel comfortable with that. I'm not technical.
[01:00:59] Speaker E: I'm not a biologist.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: I've been here.
[01:01:02] Speaker F: I'm a person who knows how to.
[01:01:04] Speaker A: Get things done because I was trained by the best.
[01:01:08] Speaker E: But it was hard. It was hard, especially losing Doug was hard. And the whole change was hard.
[01:01:14] Speaker F: But you know what happened also, just to finish with that, I was set.
[01:01:18] Speaker A: On a know, working forever with Doug, and know I was probably going to know.
[01:01:25] Speaker F: But suddenly Doug dies, and then Chris.
[01:01:28] Speaker A: Decides to become the executive director. First was from Topkis conservation chile, now revival in Chile. And it was like when you reset the computer.
[01:01:39] Speaker E: So for my brain, it's been fantastic.
[01:01:42] Speaker A: You know what I mean? It's hard, but it's stimulating.
[01:01:47] Speaker F: It'S reenergizing.
[01:01:50] Speaker C: And you're the perfect person.
[01:01:52] Speaker D: Just, like, the enthusiasm that just is.
[01:01:55] Speaker C: Like, coming off of you right now, it's so inspiring.
[01:02:01] Speaker D: I guess, with that, what keeps you so hopeful? Why do you wake up every day.
[01:02:06] Speaker C: Ready to go and keep working on this mission?
[01:02:10] Speaker E: Okay.
[01:02:10] Speaker A: I'm not hopeful.
No, I'm not hopeful. No, I'm not hopeful at all. But I'm actually really sad.
Maybe not for my generation, it's bad.
[01:02:22] Speaker E: Enough, but for babies, what is their.
[01:02:25] Speaker A: Life is going to be like with.
[01:02:26] Speaker F: All these incredible, drastic changes, droughts.
So I'm not hopeful, but nevertheless, I.
[01:02:38] Speaker A: Think that shifts can happen, and you.
[01:02:42] Speaker F: Never have to stop trying.
[01:02:44] Speaker A: You never have to stop trying, because.
[01:02:46] Speaker E: Maybe what we're doing today is going to help. Not my generation, my daughter's generation, but.
[01:02:52] Speaker F: Maybe two or three more generations to come.
[01:02:56] Speaker A: So I kind of put my thinking.
[01:02:58] Speaker F: In two or more three generations, not.
[01:03:00] Speaker A: Because I'm not hopeful what's going on right now.
[01:03:02] Speaker F: I'm not going to do anything about it. You got to keep trying at it. It's the only way I could feel comfortable with myself.
[01:03:12] Speaker C: That's such an honest answer, and I respect that. I absolutely do. Sometimes it's hard to get up, but at the same time, just like you.
[01:03:22] Speaker D: Said, we can't step away.
[01:03:26] Speaker C: We can't not do this. It can't at least help in some way, shape, or form, even if we don't have any clue or hope of what exactly the future will look like, but we can at least make a dent.
[01:03:37] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:03:38] Speaker D: In a positive way.
[01:03:39] Speaker A: And I truly think that when you.
[01:03:44] Speaker F: Look at the root of parks, we.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: Can'T move all of us there, but.
[01:03:51] Speaker F: There'S going to be one place that.
[01:03:54] Speaker A: For a long time is going to.
[01:03:56] Speaker F: Be green and beautiful, and it's going.
[01:04:00] Speaker E: To have an impact in our country for sure.
[01:04:03] Speaker F: And for the world.
Got to keep trying. We have to complete that vision and keep at it. Yes.
[01:04:12] Speaker C: Oh, I can't wait to see the root of the park.
[01:04:14] Speaker D: It's a matter of time.
[01:04:14] Speaker C: So I'm on a plane. I'm working on it.
[01:04:16] Speaker E: I'm working on it.
[01:04:17] Speaker A: I'll be there soon.
[01:04:18] Speaker C: Do you have any?
[01:04:20] Speaker D: Okay, maybe I can't ask for secrets.
[01:04:22] Speaker C: Or like sneak peek or spoilers. But what are the big projects that rewatting Chile is currently working on that you are allowed to tell us about?
[01:04:34] Speaker A: Well, no. The biggest project is the completion of.
[01:04:36] Speaker E: This new national park on the Strait of Magellan.
[01:04:39] Speaker A: That project has been conceived in three phases.
[01:04:42] Speaker E: We already completed the purchase of the first phase. We're doing the restoration work there.
[01:04:47] Speaker F: We're working with the government to make that park happen.
[01:04:50] Speaker E: But there's two more phases, two more purchases that we have not done yet.
[01:04:55] Speaker A: But by the time.
[01:04:56] Speaker F: I hope nobody in Chile is listening to this.
[01:05:00] Speaker A: Maybe it's a spoiler, but by the time we concrete that, it's going to.
[01:05:03] Speaker E: Be about a corridor of about 20 million acres protected.
[01:05:07] Speaker A: So that's a huge deal.
[01:05:09] Speaker F: It's amazing.
[01:05:10] Speaker A: We're not buying the 20 million acres, but if we manage to complete this project the way we envision it, there.
[01:05:17] Speaker E: Are over 20 million acres protected, an ecological corridor of over 20 million acres.
[01:05:23] Speaker A: So that's a fantastic project.
[01:05:26] Speaker F: The other thing that we have strengthened.
[01:05:30] Speaker E: Our marine program on the southern ocean of Chile.
[01:05:34] Speaker A: We're starting this year to do carbon sequentration measurements that are really important for.
[01:05:40] Speaker E: Decision making in terms of protection, conservation, park creation.
[01:05:45] Speaker A: It's going to be good for Chile.
[01:05:46] Speaker E: To have that kind of information.
[01:05:48] Speaker F: Yeah.
[01:05:48] Speaker A: And we continue to do all of.
[01:05:50] Speaker F: Our monitoring and all the species that I mentioned before.
[01:05:55] Speaker C: Gosh, 20 million acres.
[01:05:58] Speaker D: That is so exciting and mind blowing.
[01:06:01] Speaker C: So, before I let you go, there is one question that I absolutely love to ask. And since we all come from different.
[01:06:09] Speaker D: Walks of life, we've all picked up.
[01:06:13] Speaker C: Some message or a piece of advice that we love to share with others for you.
[01:06:20] Speaker D: What is that piece of advice that you would love to share with those listening?
[01:06:25] Speaker A: Conservation of our natural world is not in the hands of our governments.
[01:06:31] Speaker F: It depends on all of us, the.
[01:06:33] Speaker E: Civil society, and we all have to contribute. Let's not be lazy.
[01:06:38] Speaker F: Let's put our little.
[01:06:41] Speaker A: As we say.
[01:06:42] Speaker F: In Chile, and contribute to that.
[01:06:47] Speaker E: We're all needed.
[01:06:48] Speaker A: We're all needed.
[01:06:48] Speaker E: If we want to make this shift.
[01:06:50] Speaker F: That it's looking really hard right now, we should all contribute. This is the root of parks.
[01:06:59] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:07:02] Speaker C: I promise I'm doing my part, girl. I'm going to hopefully be there in a few months. I'm arranging that and I would love to see you, for sure, make that happen.
Lots of things going on behind the scenes that I haven't quite yet announced.
Hopefully, maybe when this episode drops, I'll be able to share a little bit more of what we are working on behind the scenes, but very exciting stuff. And hopefully that will also include a.
[01:07:30] Speaker D: Live in person chat together.
[01:07:33] Speaker C: Fantastic seeing you.
Lots of stuff, lots of logistics that we're working on, but very exciting. And Carolina, you are just so incredible and very inspiring and I'm so grateful that we connected online.
Just everything that has happened from that.
[01:07:54] Speaker D: One moment that you found me and.
[01:07:57] Speaker C: Sent a friend request and I frantically.
[01:07:59] Speaker D: Messaged you like immediately.
[01:08:05] Speaker C: Just everything that positive has already happened so far since that fateful meeting online. So again, Carolina, thank you for just your dedication to this, even in the hard times and even after everything that you've gone through and you're still so happy and positive and smiling and coming from there. So again, thank you for sitting down with me today.
[01:08:28] Speaker A: Thank you Brooke, thank you so much for spending this time together and I.
[01:08:31] Speaker F: Hope to see you in Chile soon.
[01:08:33] Speaker C: Thank you for joining me on this wild adventure today.
[01:08:37] Speaker G: I hope you've been inspired by the incredible stories, insights, and knowledge shared in this episode. To learn more about what you heard, be sure to check out the show
[email protected] if you enjoyed today's conversation and want to stay connected with the rewildology community, hit that subscribe button and rate and review the show on your favorite podcast app. I read every comment left across the show's platforms and your feedback truly does.
[01:09:05] Speaker C: Mean the world to me.
[01:09:08] Speaker G: Also, please follow the show on your favorite social media app. Join the Rewildologies Facebook group and sign up for the weekly rewildology newsletter. In the newsletter, I share recent episodes, the latest conservation news, opportunities from across the field, and updates from past guests.
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Remember, rewilding isn't just a concept, it's a call to action. Whether it's supporting a local conservation project, reducing your own impact, or simply sharing the knowledge you've gained, today you have the power to make a difference.
A big thank you to the guests.
[01:10:00] Speaker B: That come onto the show and share.
[01:10:01] Speaker G: Their knowledge with all of us and to all of you, Rewild Algie listeners for making the show everything it is today. This is Brooke signing off. Remember, together we will rewild the planet.
