[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, rewildologists, I hope you're enjoying the show's mini sews as much as me.
In case you weren't aware, Friday, May 17, is endangered Species Day, and I thought we'd celebrate by bringing awareness to the largest species that has ever existed on this planet, blue whales.
In 2022, I had the privilege of sitting down with Daniela Alkone, a cetacean researcher in the Galapagos Islands. Excitingly, Daniella was part of the first team to successfully tag a blue whale in the Galapagos, and her knowledge about the species is extensive. Let me tell you. In this part of our conversation, Dani discusses how her PhD project came together, the challenges of studying cetaceans in the Galapagos. Pretty much everything you need to know about blue whales, and the, quote, questions she and her team are trying to answer to further understand this elusive and endangered species.
After you're done listening to this snippet, dive into the archives and check out episode 68 to listen to Dani's full story.
Alright, friends, please enjoy this enthusiastic, fact filled episode with Daniella.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Since 2016. But then two big things happened in this year, because then one of the big things it was that I started working with a collaborator, Hector Guzman. He's from the Smithsonian Research Institute in Panama. So he was interested in coming to the Galapagos, and we started working together with the idea, with the main idea of reactivating this asian program that was Pacific collecting information, or passive collecting information in the Galapagos with the naturalistic guide, sending us the sightings that they have, what species they were seeing, what preys some of the dolphins were like having in the islands. So we had a lot of information. We got pictures from individuals for the photo ed catalogs, but then, yeah, we wanted to go further to start like actually actively searching the animals and actively doing more research. So then we start to look for the animals participations around the Galapagos. 2016. Then 2017 was a year. Then I got pregnant and I have my little kid. So it was like a more like, take it easy. And then we also have some appeal trips. But I was not very involved because, yeah, I was more with the maternity, but that is like another history. Very nice. And I love to have my little daughter, but yeah. So then when we started to go out, it was like we started to find not a lot, but different species of cetaceans. And we were interested mostly in killer whales and blue whales that are the more iconic animals. I think blue whales are like the biggest animal in the world. So it's very very iconic, and they are in danger as well. So we were like, okay, let's see what we can do with the blue whales and then killer whales. Also, because we have different, like, sightings, we have information of, like, naturalistic guys. So we were, like, searching for them. But then, yeah, we were, like, prepared. So the first year, we went out to search for the killer whales, and then we just, like, find other big whales species, like blue whales or humpbacks or bright whales. So it was, like, kind of frustrating because, yeah, we were like, okay, next year. So next year we were, like, prepared for the big whales, the blue whales and everything, but then the killer whales were around and we were just having, like, killer whale sightings on the flu, and all the blue whales were not there. So it was like, okay, no, my God. And then, yeah, the next year, we were like, yeah, this is that year. So we went prepared. It was, like, 2019, and we found the blue whales. We managed to take samples. We couldn't place any tag in that year, but, yeah, we got a lot of, in terms of, like, pictures, sampling, and a little bit of behavior data. So that was, like, perfect. We were, like, super excited. Then we managed also to get some information and some samplings of bottlenose dolphins that are actually resident group around the island.
And then next year, we were prepared, and then the pandemic arrived. So it was like, okay, now we have just two years of, like, just waiting, and we managed to get and collect some information because we keep having the sightings.
And then, yeah, last year we were like, okay, this is the year, so it's not ending there. So. Wait, but, yeah, so we were like, yeah, then let's go. So we plan everything to have a trip in August, and we went out to search for the whales in August, and we were, like, super prepared. We have everything. We have, like, a guy that was just in charge of, like, filming and taking pictures and everything, and then we start the trip, and then the wind was so bad that we just couldn't, like, not even, like, go out on the boat because we were, like, seasick and we cannot see, like, because it was too much wind. So we were, okay, then. Let's wait. So we spent, like, ten days going around the galapagos with bad weather, and then we just found, like, one blue whale and a couple of bright whales around. But, yeah, we were more interested in the blue whales, but it was just one in ten days, and we couldn't, like, not even, like, get very close because the wind was very bad and the weather was not very nice. So I was. And then I also, like, forget to mention that during the pandemic, I was like, okay, maybe my job is not going to be secure anymore because then I might change my job to emblematic project coordinator at the Galapagos Science center. And my job was based on working with the students that wanted to come to research in the Galapagos and to have the experience of doing research in the galapagos. So we have this program now that promotes students to come to the Galapagos and to have this program where they actively participate in research projects to learn how research is done in the Galapagos. So, yeah, that was like one year and then the pandemic. So I was like, okay, with no students, what else I can do? So then, yeah, I applied for a PhD program, also with an australian university, and then I got accepted. So that was like perfect. And that was like super nice for me. So then, yeah, I was like, okay, I wanted to use the data that I already have from the glue whales to start my PhD. And during the pandemic, what I was doing is just analyzing that and start with this as soon as possible. So I started last July with my PhD, and then in August we have the first trip. And this first trip was no whales at all and bad weather. So I was like, oh, perfect, the first trip on my PhD is no whale.
Then I was like, okay, what else? Because, like, the logistics and it's very expensive. So, yeah, having a ten day trip with a football just like, for certain wheels was like a lot, and then nothing. So I was like, oh. But then luckily, Hector, he with the Smithsonian, they found another trip in September and it was totally, totally different. So we have better conditions, still a little bit of wind, but it was much better. And then we managed to go to the place where we started, like finding blue whales everywhere. So actually, every time that we go out, the most species in terms of, like, big whales in the galapagos are bright whales. But during that trip, it was like, bright whale. No, no, no, that's a blue whale. And then the next spot, it was like, oh, my God, blue whales again. So we were finding just blue whales, and then we managed to get, like everything, like pictures, samples, and then we managed to lay tell ital tags on the individuals to see how they moved. So, yeah, that was like a success because, yeah, we managed to tag ten individuals, but then I managed to photo identify 35 individuals, and that was a lot. And that is a lot because usually what you have is that blue whales, they do not travel in groups. So when you find one is, like, one individual or maybe two individuals, but this was, like, blue whales everywhere. So I was like, okay, taking pictures, and maybe I was like, yeah, maybe they are the same individuals. But then, like, classifying and seeing the animals, they were, like, all different all the day. So I was like, okay. That was, like, mind blowing to see how many individuals I was. We were, like, founding, and then I managed to take more samples. So now I'm, like, in the process of doing the genetics of all the samples, the main idea is to see where these populations are coming from, because in the past, blue whales titans were very scared, and they were just in certain seasons of the year, just in this time, July up to November, and there were just ten individual samples in the history of the galapagos. So there were not too many individuals that were around, mainly because I think in the past, blue whales populations were very, very low, so it was very hard. But now it seems like they are recovery because of all the effort that we have done in terms of, like, banning the whaling and all the effort in terms of protecting these animals. So whales are the perfect example in terms of, like, conservation and all the amazing work that people can do when they realize that we need to do something for an animal. So I really like to work with them because, yeah, it's like, a perfect example of, like, how to protect and how to bring our species back. And now we have more sightings, and we are reporting now blue whale sightings all year round. But we still don't know. Yeah, we still don't know where they are coming from. So maybe we think they are from the south, from the populations in Chile, because, yeah, we have different populations. We have the populations from the north and then from the south, and then also we have the populations from Antarctica. So we were not. We were not sure where these individuals are coming from. Now we are still knowing, because the genetics are showing a very high diversity on these animals. And then we are also studying the sex radius of these individuals for the genetics and to understand more about this population structure. So it's very, very interesting to start digging more and searching more about these animals. Ideally, we want to get these results done and also compare that with the diet of these species, because usually they have very marked areas where they feed. And what it happens with other cetaceans, or what they used to think that it happens is like, they feed in these areas where food is very abundant, for example, in Chile or in the Antarctic, or in the north as well. For example, California, the California current, for example. But then in these tropical areas where they come to breed, they don't feed too much.
For example, they think the same about, like, humpback whales. They just stop feeding and travel to this tropical area just to reproduction and to give birth to the cows. But in the galapagos, we are seeing that blue whales are feeding most of the time that we are finding them. So these animals are so big that they cannot stop eating. And what we want to see is how long they are staying in these areas. And how important are the galapagos for these populations that are staying, maybe for the entire year around this area. So what it was taught before, it was like, maybe they are migrating every year, going from higher latitudes to lower latitudes. But now maybe we are seeing the plasticity that they have in terms of, like, staying in an area or relying on the resources that those area has in terms of, like, feeding resources and that thing.
That's what we want to understand more. We don't know yet for sure if that is, like, what is happening, but, yeah, with all these pieces that we are collecting, we want to start getting the puzzle more in detail now to see what is actually happened. Because, yeah, it's very, very good news that these populations are recovering, but now they are facing other threats like boat strikes or plastic entanglement, noise pollution, climate change. So it's still. No. So now they are, like, relieving of some of the pressure that they have. But in other sites, they're like, okay, no. Getting more pressure for, like, the boats and everything.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Wow, that was great info. Gosh, that was fantastic. And you hit so many amazing points. And there's one that I want to go back to that you breezed over, that I really want to highlight, and that was the fact that you tagged these whales. And from what I understand, you and your team, you're the first people to ever tag a blue whale in the Galapagos. Am I correct?
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Yes. So that's actually, indeed. That was, like, so exciting. And, like, take me through that.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: What was that like? How does it work? How do you tag a whale? What is the data specifically that you're collecting? And then take me through that experience where you're like, I just tagged the first blue whale on the Galapagos. Like, that's freaking amazing. So, like, teach me all the things.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, as I mentioned, I was, like, very, very lucky to start working with Doctor Hector Guzman from the Smithsonian Research Institute. And he is the experienced researcher, was doing all this process, actually. It's like a full group job, I think, because we need a group of people in terms of, like, we were, like, in small zodiac. And Hector has been working with cetaceans for many, many years. He has been tagging whales in other places, like Antarctica or Panama, Chile, Mexico. So he has a lot of experience. So we were there, and I'm still learning the process. I'm learning all these things. So I'm in charge at the moment of taking the pictures, and it's like, as I say, team job. So Hector is in the front with the tags. Then I'm, like, in his bag, ready for take the pictures or the samples. And the captain of the boat is in the bag because it's like a three meter zodiac. And then if you get close to a 20 more meters animal, it's like you're a tiny, tiny thing. But, yeah, we managed to tag ten individuals. I'm still learning how to do it because then you need to train a lot. You need to be, like, a perfect shooter and have. Be, like, super accurate to place the tag. Otherwise you can disturb the animal maybe, or place the tag in a place that it's not going to transmit sign off, or then just throw in one of the tags into the ocean, and that will be $3,000. Just into the ocean.
Yeah, it happens to us. So it is like, okay, that's the tag. And then now it's in the water, in the ocean sewer. So that was it. But, yeah, so it's like, not everyone can do this. And, like, I really want to put this, like, as a highlight because then, yeah, we have a very trained and a very well known researcher that is doing this job. And the rest we are all learning. But we were there. We were, like, the first team to tag the blue wheels, and then now we are, like, just seeing where these individuals are moving. What happens usually is like, also you don't get the signals from all the tags, and then the animal lost the tags very easily. So we still have some individuals that are sending signals, but, yeah, we have some individuals that the tags are lost already. So that's how it is. Then the idea is to keep doing this job and keep learning and, yeah, to see where they are moving from what we want to see. It's like if they are going back to the south or they are staying around these areas or they are moving south, maybe going up to Mexico or California. So that will be great to have those results in the future.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: No, that is absolutely incredible and definitely cannot wait to hear what kind of data you've collected. I mean, can you share a little bit of preliminary data or not? Is it still being analyzed or what's going on?
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah, we are still analyzing the data. We have the results of the genetics and in terms of like the sex radios we expected to have. Well, we didn't expect anything.
I was not going to say we expected to have more females, but that was not true. We were just like, okay, what is happening? But, yeah, I was maybe thinking females because they are coming to give birth or something. But no, no, forget about that. Yeah. So then in terms of like the sex radio, it's like very, even 50 50. So that's good news. We have, like, we can say like healthy population and then in terms of the genetic. Also we have a very high genetic diversity. So that's like very good news. And the good news can be that we have this boundary where populations from the north are mixing with populations from the south and they are like now understanding how these populations are being structured and how they divide. So they have a lot of information of what is happening in the north, in California, Mexico and what is happening in the south, also in Chile and all those populations. But it's missing what is happening in these equatorial areas where it can be like a boundary area where populations could mix or where all this mix could happen. So then ideally what we want to explore and to define more is this structure on the populations and to see if we are having more of the individuals coming from there or it's not that case.
We also have individuals from the north. So we don't know yet what is happening. Like, in reality, we are still analyzing data and we still need to collect more data because, yeah, we have data from one season that will be the cold season. Now we are having the next trip we have in March. So ideally we will have the other season of the year to see if we find more individuals. And in this case, what we are trying to see the individuals that we maybe are going to find now are the ones from the north because then if you make the. The comparisons of when it's winter and where is summer and then now it's winter in the north. So we have maybe the individuals from the north in here. So that's the plan to see if there is like any differences. And what we know is that the animals and blue whales are still around. We have like sightings and, yeah, this year, actually it's rare year because the weather conditions have been different and we have a cold water temperature that was not normal for this season. So we have a La Nina event coming. So La nina event is the opposite of El Nino event, that it's a oceanographic condition affecting all the regions. So when you have these La Nina conditions, then you have colder waters than normal, and then in land will be more drier. But it's good for some individuals, for example, for patients, it's very good because productivity keeps higher with this cold water conditions. But for example, for sea tortols is too cold to nest and things like that. So this year we are still wanting to wait one more year to keep and then get more results in order to compare. Yeah. So studying these big animals, migratory animals in its few years to see if they are going back or if you have like, resides with the data. The good news is that we have one recite of a blue whale that was in the Galapagos and then was found in the costa rican dome. That is where blue whales from the northern hemisphere are going on the winter or summer, however you want to see.
Then that same blue whale was seen again in the Galapagos. So it's a very good connectivity. And what we want to get with this data also is information about these migration routes that these animals have, because it's what we want to protect. The idea is to keep expanding these marine protected areas. And how I mentioned before, the president of Ecuador, just expand the Galapagos Marine Reserve and create a new marine reserve that is also connecting one corridor that connects Galapagos with Cocos island in Costa Rica. And this corridor was mostly because of a lot of movement of sharks and sea turtles and other migratory species. So then, ideally, understanding how these bigger animals, like patients, are moving, we are going to be able in the future, to create these roots connecting more countries, and not just like one area with another, then we are going to see more in detail what are the most specific areas that we need to protect now in order to protect these species as well. And then this is good, because then they work as an umbrella species in terms of protecting a very big area, protecting other species that lives on that place as well. So that's the main goal of everything.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Oh, that is so incredible. Yes. I just had on a costa rican whale specialist on my podcast. So it's like, so funny to hear both sides. Like, both sides of that, because you talked about that corridor as well, like, from this side. It's just so funny. Yeah, yeah, it's so great. I mean, there's this really big wildlife corridor, movement on land. So to hear now that that same concept, which is really important, is also starting to happen in water, too, which sounds like a whole other beast to tackle when you're talking about international waters and getting international governments to come together to protect this area, because it's almost feels like a no man's land, but it's not. But it is. And so to hear that this big corridor was successfully built and protected is so exciting. Is so, so, so exciting. Oh, my gosh, I cannot wait to hear more about that. Oh. Oh. So let's take it.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: Let's.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Let's take it back a little bit. For those of us that might not be blue whale specialists, could you maybe give us a little bit more about their natural history, maybe about their actual history from, like, a conservation standpoint? But, yeah, if there's any special facts or any knowledge that you would like to share about these whales and why they're so freaking special and amazing.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, no, I have a lot of facts and a lot of information of blue whales. But, yeah, first of all, they are the biggest animal that ever exists on earth. And the numbers actually in the past were higher. They mentioned, like, more than 3300,000 individuals were recorded or were, like, estimated in the past. But then the whaling started, and it was in the whaling commercial park where the people start to get faster boats and bigger boats and being able to spend more time in the water in the ocean, where they start to be able to hunt these individuals. And then they were so big and they had so much oil that they were going for a lot of not just blue whales. So whaling managed to almost disappear these populations, and then the population that was more in danger was the individuals living in the south, because then worldwide, you have five different populations of blue whales that are described. So if you more or less understand how the oceans are, then you have the Pacific, Pacific northern population, then you have the population from the south, and you have a population of blue whales in the Indic and around Australia, and then population in Antarctica. So those individuals were very, very highly affected and very endangered. And now they are, since they banned the whaling and they start protecting these habitats, then a lot of countries start to protect and being part of this whaling commission that was created. So they managed to create these whale sanctuaries in the 200 nautical miles that it's what a country owns of their ocean.
So then, yeah, then most of the countries that were part of this commission were, like, protecting whales. And that gave us the chance for humpbacks and blue whales and other species also to start recovering, covering. So then, yeah, blue whales are migratory species. They move very, very long distances. So they can travel more than 100 day.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: I don't know in terms of conversion how much.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Oh, that's fine.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: It's far, but it's a lot. Like, they travel a lot and they communicate by sound, so they have very low frequencies to communicate. So the sound can travel very, very long distances and they can communicate as well for like very far. So another very interesting thing about blue whales is because they are migratory and they are so big, they cannot stop feeding, like other species that are thought that they just stop feeding when they migrate. But yeah, blue whales need to have this highly productive areas where they can feed while they are migrating as well. So that is also why it's like so important to understand more about these places. And then now they are like, seeing this animal recovery and what now people is studying and what they are saying is using blue whales and all these big whales for also mitigating climate change, because they are perfect animal in terms of like, mitigating climate change for different reasons. Mostly because they are so big that they got a lot of carbon and they storage a lot of carbon. And when the whales die, they just sink to the bottom of the ocean and all these carbon sink with them. So it's estimated that 33 tons of carbon, carbon could be storage in one big whale.
That's crazy. Yeah, no, so now they are like saying, like, instead of like planting trees, they are like campaigns of like just having more whales and like storage in more and more carbon on the whales or dig any big animals. So that's one point. But then second is like they move nutrients from the water not just from the depth to the surface, but also from higher latitude to lower latitudes because they migrate and they move a lot and they move a lot of water. So this movement of water mix and create nutrients and help to ecosystem be more productive. So one thing is like moving nutrients and helping to increase productivity in the ecosystem. And then also what it's most valuable. It's like the poo of the whales, that's like gold.
So the poo of the whales is like very, very rich in iron. And that is one of the elements that is lacking in the oceans in terms of like having more productivity. So, yeah, this rich iron pool that whale has is very, very good for productivity in the ocean. So now they are saying a lot in terms of like, recovering these numbers of whales will help in terms of like producing more, getting more, like productive ecosystem to increase more like other species, for example, fisheries or commercial fishes that we are using, just having the whales going back to normal numbers. So that's one of the key things that people is, like, starting to talk about whales at the moment in terms of, like, helping or to fight climate change.
[00:31:40] Speaker A: Wow, you just taught me so much. It's incredible. I had not heard that connection with climate change in whales. That is so cool. And it does make so much sense because just like you said, they just sink to the bottom. Whatever is eaten is eaten, and that is then stored in other living creatures. And then it just goes to the bottom. Oh, my gosh. That's incredible.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: And then there is her for many other animals. Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of food for other animals.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Exactly. So much food. So much food. And you briefly mentioned on it. But I would like to explore a little bit further.
What would you say is, like, the biggest conservation issue that they're facing now? Because obviously the biggest one was whaling that has been banned and their numbers are recovering, but they're still not back to their former glory. So what's going on with them? What are they still dealing with?
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, sadly, they are facing other threats and it will be mostly boat strikes and plastic pollution, because all these nets that are just floating in the ocean, these ghost nets, these plastics, then they got entangled, they eat the plastic and they are dying because they have their stomach full of plastics. But boat strikes, I think it's one of the main threats now because we have a lot of these big cruises or like shipping boats that they are very big, they go very fast, and then they are in the same routes that the whales are. And, yeah, boat strikes is one of the main threats now for the animals. So it's a lot of work that is being done in this, for example, with the tagging and seeing how they move and how they migrate. To understand the home range that they have, give us an idea and some areas that ships could avoid. And now they are developing a lot of different techniques. For example, they are also seeing this relationship between whales and high productivity. So another thing that they are doing now in the states, for example, is measuring where these high productivity plumes are, letting know the boats to those areas and to go slower in those areas. And then another thing that they are actually doing, another idea is to set underwater recordings to record where whales are around. Because remember that they are always vocalizing, they communicate by sound. So then ideally, when you put these recorders, then you get a signal that a whale will be around, and then that signal is sent to the boat to be aware. But still, it's very, very hard, because what you want, being a captain of a boat, is to go fast, to be from one point to another in the less time possible, and then you don't have the whole time to be there observing and just reducing speed, because then what they want is just to get to the place. So, yeah, there's still a lot of, like, more to do, but there are some efforts now in terms of, like, reducing these boat strikes to whales and to other cetaceans as well.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: So you are starting to see some positive movement in that way, because I'm sure everybody listening, I'm sure you've seen it, too, of just that horrific image of a boat coming to port and there's a dead whale on the bow, and it's just.
But it does sound like things are going in the right direction.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Hopefully people is, like, getting aware of this, at least. And then, for example, there was a publication last year in Chile where they were modeling how blue whales are moving. And in Chile is a very busy area because then you have all the salmon farms and all the shipping boats in this area. So they were creating these models or how the blue whales are moving and how they are avoiding these boats the whole time. So now it's like this conservation issue. And that is also what we want to understand more and we want to mention, because then the Galapagos is protected. It doesn't have, like, too much boat traffic. So in those terms, if we think that the populations here are, like, in a, well, position, in a nice position, but then the same individuals are going to be just facing the other side of the coin in terms of, like, having to avoid this trip the whole time, these boats the whole time. Yeah. So then ideally, we want to understand if it's like, the same population or what is happening to get more effort in terms of, like, the conservation part. So that's the main thing on everything, not to get this conservation effort more and more in detail for these animals to see what is happening with the populations.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: Okay. That makes total sense. Okay, so we know so much about blue whales. Thank you for teaching us so much about blue whales. And since this species is so big and it feels so hard to help, what would you say for anybody listening, what is something that we could do to help with blue whales and their conservation?
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah, no, you can do a lot. So mostly you can help in terms of, like, reducing just one plastic item. So helping the ocean to be with less plastic and to be less polluted, that will. That will be, like, a huge help for all the cetaceans because that was one of the main threats as well. But actually also like getting pressure on the government on these corridors to get protected, informing on what type of products you consume from the ocean. That's another very good thing that you can do for all these animals because then fishing techniques, fishing gear, all these, if it's not in a well managed way and it's not from a liability resource, what you are getting could be like this type of seafood that you are getting. It's affecting blue whales or it's affecting other cetaceans. So it goes all together in terms of making pressure to protect more areas or helping campaigns that are doing something against boat strikes. In terms of like getting these corridors or reducing speed for the boats, but just every day reducing any type of plastics or just be aware of what you buy from the ocean. It's very key in terms of like protecting blue whales or other species.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: Thank you for joining me on this wild adventure today. I hope you've been inspired by the incredible stories, insights and knowledge shared in this episode. To learn more about what you heard, be sure to check out the show
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