[00:00:00] Speaker A: Awe inspiring moments, close encounters, and life flashing before our eyes. Being a shark researcher and underwater guide comes with all sorts of experiences, from the incredibly rewarding to the frightening.
Welcome to Rewadology, the nature podcast that delves into the human side of conservation, travel and rewilding our planet. I am your host, Brooke Mitchell, conservation biologist and adventure traveler.
Today's conversation is the fourth episode in this super fun mini series called Conservation chronicles tales from the field, where I sit down with a former guest to explore the most unforgettable tales etched into their memory.
The next storyteller in this series is Frida Lora, PhD, shark researcher, underwater tour guide, and a co founder of Orcas.
In this conversation, Frida shares some of the top memories of her career, including a scary encounter with an agitated tiger shark. She also shares updates about her research with silky sharks, being joined by some pretty famous film crews, and the huge leaps forward they have made with local communities.
Once you've enjoyed Frida's stories, scroll back through the archives to episode 116 to learn more about her research, the differences between artisanal and commercial shark fishing, and the power of community based tourism for ocean conservation.
All right, friends, please enjoy these captivating stories with Frida.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Oh, Frida, I am so happy to have you back on the show for this very fun new series, stories from the field. And I know, and I'm positive you have some wild stories from, from your line of work. So let's pretend right now we are on a beach around a campfire with a good margarita or some fun drink, and I want to hear a story from you. So tell. Tell me. Take me to this place. Where are we going in your timeline? When was this? And set the scene. What story are we going to dive into? Set the scene for us.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Well, I think I will start with something that happened actually in spring this year.
We have a good collaborator from Switzerland that wanted to tag mako sharks.
He went to Cabo and the conditions were not great and they couldn't do it there. So next morning he asked us to organize a trip with our team, with the shark fishermen that now are transitioning to tourism and also helping us to do science. And our team was divided into boats. The first boat was the fishermen during their normal work, and we were with the scientists and yeah, it was super successful. We found three mako sharks around 1 meter and 70. We were able to tag these three sharks. So it's one of the best examples of how we can collaborate with the communities and working together. So they took us to the right place in the right time and had really, really success with these scientists. So we have been tracking these sharks for a couple of months.
The only bad news is that the three sharks, even that we have a period where no one is allowed to catch sharks. They were caught by, we think, industrial fishing very close to rabbi Agrichedo in an open area very far from land. And yeah, these sharks were took, maybe by accident, but yes, we lost those sharks.
For the summer. We were expecting to see some silky sharks because it's the right time for them to come to the shores. And we were trying, we couldn't find them. And just yesterday we went out 25 miles from shore and it was really, really nice to see like around eleven juvenile silky sharks that are like half a meter. So they are super cute. They are like very playful. They come super close to you.
They act like they were adults, like super big and everything and, yeah, so it was really cute. And the importance of this is that we were able to take genetic samples of these sharks. So in the future, we want to analyze and see if these sharks are related to the sharks in oceanic islands like rebirth. So it's not just about having hope with the community knowing that the sharks are returning finally. It's also about the information that we can get from this species that potentially in the future can be used for policymaking and really protect them. So I think we are basically closing the whole cycle from creating the signs that can support protection but also involving the locals in the whole process. So they feel proud of it. And even when we were tracking the, the mako sharks, the mom of one of the fishermen was asking us, like, can you tell us where they are, if they are safe? Like, the whole family invested was so touched by this story and they were so happy and proud about the tagging. So the idea is, for example, one of the orcas, one of the members of our organization, is fundraising in the school of her kids. So the kids are filming a video and saying, like, we want to adopt the shark. So if you want to get involved, you can support us. And we are going to fundraise to get attacked and being able to follow a shark. So I think it's pretty cool that in many ways you can get involved and also to help us to really know more about.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, that's incredible. Those updates are amazing.
[00:06:45] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Have you had in the past year or even in your, your amazing career so far? Have you had any really moving or unbelievable encounters with sharks when you've been in the water? And if so, could you tell us that story. What happened?
[00:07:05] Speaker C: Well, one of the most incredible ones was in Rabbi A. Hijedo in sub correct islands, where I did my PhD.
We had an encounter with a four meter tiger shark in the middle of the blue after diving with the humpback whale. That was one of my best dives. Yes. This tiger shark was just circling around, foraging, looking for some food, and we found them in the blue. We were just drifting and finishing the dive, and we were kind of following her for a bit, and she didn't like it. I think these sharks are so wide, and she was a little bit maybe intimidated or something, so she started circling us, and for around five to eight minutes, she was just coming and coming and keep coming and closer to us. So it was kind of scary. But at the end, we lost her interest and she left. So that was good. But my friend and I that were diving together, he's an expert diving with sharks because he's an instructor in Kaupulmo. In Kaupulmo, we have a big population of bull sharks. So he has been diving with bull sharks for, like, over 300 dives or more. But we were talking that we were almost following manual of how to behave when you have a shark that close. And we were finishing the pages, and we couldn't find another way to do something.
So, yeah, it was pretty epic, but at the same time, kind of intimidating. And at the end, nothing happened. So I think that's also a lesson where you never can be overconfident or thinking that you know everything about them. You always have to be respectful and aware that they are top predators and is there a habitat. So you have to be always aware.
And if they just see that they are not comfortable, you just have to leave them by themselves and. And just, yes, observing them from the, from fire.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: So how did you feel when you noticed her behavior switch and what was she doing in the water? Did she.
I've never been in the water with a shark like that, let alone one that might be showing aggressive behavior. So. And be, you're the shark expert. So tell me, like, like, put the image in my brain, what was she doing? So you're in the water, you just saw these amazing humpback whales, and then you see the shark, and what was she doing that gave you the clue that maybe she was not happy with your presence?
[00:09:57] Speaker C: Something that I remember was that I had my camera, so I was trying to keep recording the whole event. So I have the first photos when we saw her the first time, and her fins were relaxed. So normally, their pectoral fins normally are, like, very horizontal. And when the shark gets stressed, they start putting the fins closer and more vertical like this. And also the back of the shark hunch, like a cat. When a cat is about to attack, they normally have a little hump. The sharks tend to do the same. So they start like.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:10:39] Speaker C: Yes. And they start swimming more erratic, so zigzag swimming faster. And the last thing we saw that was, like, pretty clear for us that she was not comfortable was that she moved the head side to side like a tiger and then opened them out to show us her power. So seeing a shard, like, doing like this and then that, she didn't try to bite us, but just showing us that, like, a clear display of, like, I'm there.
I rule here. I'm the one that puts you in your place was pretty clear. And I remember looking at my friend, and his eyes were, like, completely open, and, like, we were like, oh, no.
So, yeah, that was interesting.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. My heart rate is going up. And I'm not. I wasn't even there. I wasn't even there. I also love predators, so I've seen that kind of behavior and. And land predators, but not in water or anything like that. Do you remember what it felt like? Did your heart start to race? Did you. What did you do? What was your reaction?
[00:11:52] Speaker C: I have one photo just before that where I have the perspective of the whole humpback way. And if you look closely, you can see a tiny little shark behind.
And when I posted it, I put it's all about perspectives, because sometimes you have, like, a tunnel view where you are just looking at one impressive thing, but there is something that probably can happen in the future, and I think that was, like, the kind of moment. And I don't have any tattoo, and it's very rare here. As a marine biologist, I don't have any tattoo, but I have a friend.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:12:31] Speaker C: That tell me, like, if at some point you are thinking about having a tattoo, that will be the moment of my life, because it's like, the contrast of living something really, really cool and special, like diving for the first time with such a big animal and then having that moment of being really in danger.
So I think I was feeling, like. I was, like, thinking after that dive, I was thinking, like, I can remember this as a bad experience, or I can remember this as an epic moment in my life that can teach me something new. My friend, to be honest, he was thinking about not saying bye to his family. Like, he left. Like, remember that as a moment of thinking about, maybe this is it. No. So it was really more intense for him.
I was, like, thinking, like, enjoying it, taking photos and thinking, like, I'm very proud and lucky to be able to experience and witness something like this. Just nature acting at each, every day, and I'm just here witnessing and taking photos of Internet. So, yeah. And in that moment, it was kind of very significant because I finished my contract in an NGO where I was working as a data analyst. I had my contract for six years. So it was like, a pretty safe job doing the same thing and everything. And through Covid, I decided, no, just before COVID started, I decided to finish that contract and start something new. So I was in that moment of, like, deciding what to do. And this dive, I think, just was a confirmation of knowing that whatever I was deciding to do, it had to be related to conserving the ocean and being able to connect people to nature and. And inspire others to do the same, not to be part of the change. And I think for the people that we were just three divers in that dive, the owner of the boat, Trimaran, my friend, the instructor, and me. And I think for the trio of us was like a breaking point of our lives where it was just a confirmation of follow your dreams. So I think if we all have moments like that and you have the sensitivity of knowing that this is special and it's a moment where you have to maybe change things or decide clearly what you want to do, it's perfect. No, it's just an opportunity of living something really special.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Wow, that's such a beautiful takeaway.
And also, I'm glad that you shared how you and your fellow diver had different experiences. Like, it was the same thing, but it impacted you differently. Did he also have, like, a revelation of some sort where he continued doing something else, or like, he. He did a different, like, you know, when you have your life flash before your eyes in the form of a tiger shark, I'm sure that May. That that does change you. You were already. It was confirmation for you to go down this amazing path, which you've been so grateful. You know, I'm so grateful that you shared with us in your previous episode the whole path. Did he have a similar awakening of anything?
[00:16:14] Speaker C: I think yes, because we were eating vegetarian for the whole trip, because the owners of the chimaran are vegetarian. We didn't have any alcohol or anything. So his roommate was going to do an ayahuasca weekend, and he was like, I'm gonna do it too. So I think he needed some revelation in his life. And I think it was a critical moment. Like, there were a lot of news and 15 days without Internet in the middle of the islands. And it's crazy because you ended up getting used to being in such a small group of people. So you see four people for two weeks or three weeks. So then when you come back to reality, it can be, like, very contrasting and overwhelming. And I think, yeah, for him was a moment where he wanted to decide what he wanted to do more into the professional and work part of it. So he had a diving company, and since then, I think his company is very successful and he's very happy about all the achievements that he has done. So, yeah, I think, in general, the three of us had their paths very, very clear, and it's good to be able to share sometimes, like, experiences. I was in April, back in the trimer. I did, saying, from Loreto to La Paz, which is, like, around, we took like a week. We are doing environmental DNA. So, basically collecting a litre of water and then filtering all the water with a very tiny little filter that traps all the DNA of all the animals that are around. And my friend Ali is doing her PhD, analyzing those filters. And it's like a barcode of all the diversity that is around. So it was pretty cool to be able to go to all these little bays, taking water and finding what is around. And it's crazy how technology has taken us to this path where we know, just with a sample of water, all the animals that are around, because obviously, like, we sometimes lose hair or the animals poo or pee. So those cells are floating in the water, and with the technology now we are able to detect them, to know that they are there.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: So, oh, my gosh, it's amazing.
[00:18:50] Speaker C: So being back to that boat and experience this friendship, things like that, connected to people in a very different way, and talking about what has been passing in the last two years since I left the boat. So, yeah, it was pretty cool.
Wow.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: So that was full circle. So that was the same boat that you were on, that you had this tiger shark moment?
[00:19:14] Speaker C: Yes, exactly, yes. With the same owners. So their project was to create a school, like a floating school, where they can provide a platform for researchers to travel and do their own missions. So in this case, the mission was to detect these species all around the Gulf of California and help these researchers to do that. So it was pretty cool to be back and to see all the progress that they have done in the past.
And being able to talk about my work now.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: I am blown away. That is incredible. And of course, you couldn't have predicted that your life was going to be full circle three years later, like, reflecting all that. What was their reaction to you coming back and sharing these experiences? What did they say?
[00:20:11] Speaker C: Well, they are super proud. And something that happened is that the sailing community here in the Gulf of California or the sea of Cortes doesn't really have the chance to talk to the fishermen, the artisanal fishermen. So me being on board of the boat and telling them all the importance of these communities and how they can be, at least in the conservation of the gold, was very significant for them. It was like an eye opener, because sometimes you blame people without having the context. So now they understand that industrial fishing here, like trawlers, tuna fishing boats, sardine boats that have capacities of over 1000 tons, are fishing super close to shore and emptying the resources for the communities here. So being able to talk to them about it and to know more fishing communities all around the path and everything was super, super cool to connect with people and seeing how things are for them and always trying to give them hope that things can get better. And, and if we work together, I think we can find solutions for everyone. So climate change here is super clear. They call corals riscos, the Rocky reef that is growing very close to shore. And the fishermen see them from the surface and see how they are getting white and white. So they are surprised of how the effects of climate change are affecting the legal system.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: And since, um, you just dropped a little hint, and if somebody hasn't listened to your previous, uh, interview yet, um, you are a guide. You are like a dive guide, which is amazing. I have to ask, since I'm also in tourism, has anything crazy or weird or wild happened on one of your trips that you were leading with a group of people?
[00:22:29] Speaker C: Well, I had the incredible opportunity to lead a trip with the sea legacy team. So with Paul Nicklen and Christina Mittenmaier back in January. So I was on board of the catamaran and we were 25 days back in Socorro, in Robilla, Hijedo. So it was really cool because it's very different when you are guiding a group of divers and when you are guiding photographers.
And Paul has this thing of trying to always reach or overpass the bench in terms of visual, to be able to capture nature and be able to send a message about conservation. So it was really, really nice to spend 25 days with them and showing them Rebbe also being responsible, like, you cannot lose the boat or do something sealing and, yeah, being able to spend time with experienced divers and talk about ocean stories and things like that. So that was pretty cool.
With the fishermen, I think we are in a moment where things are getting better. They have a new boat. We work very hard for them to get their driving license for the ocean that is called libretta Mar. And being able to get all the permits has been really challenging, but they are in the process of being able to do it. Yeah, I was very happy and proud to be part of it. And seeing the transition from not knowing what to do with the camera, like not being able to communicate with the tourists and now feeling much more comfortable and even joking or sharing ocean stories with the people, I feel like I see their changes in their personality, being much more open and, like, feeling more comfortable, and I feel super proud of them that they take this new role and this new profession so seriously.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Oh, that is so beautiful. Oh, my gosh. Like in.
I just. I just love when I get to sit down with all of you amazing conservationists for these updates, because I just sit down with you in a snapshot in time. But we're all still working. We're all still doing things, you know, like we sat down then, but you're still working. So to hear these updates are just fantastic.
And just real quickly, I would love to go back to that swiss scientist story that you had mentioned. Could you maybe talk a little bit more about the whole story?
How did you connect with them and what was the actual expedition like to go find those sharks?
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Share that full story.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: I would love to hear it.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: They are filmmakers. Simi is a Switzerland filmmaker. He works with DJI and big brands for filming. He's super talented. And she and his girlfriend open an ngo that is called Deep Sea Guardians, and they are traveling around the world. They have expeditions for conservation, and sometimes they have the chance to invite some scientists to talk about the work that they are doing. And through these expeditions, he's able to record some of the things that the collaboration is doing. And then he has been able to show that in Switzerland and Germany to people that is not related to the ocean, but are related to photography or something like that. And they want to hear what he's doing. So he was able to interview one of the captains in the project and he told me that people were so connected that they were crying in Germany in one of these capitans. So it's hard because you obviously don't want to open their stories and their lives and their families, to everyone.
And it has to be in a right context where the fishermen feel identified and not exposed or not using their information, their story, to do something that can be bad for them. So, and we were talking about it, like, sometimes in their communities, they feel jealous or there is some envy or something happening, like humans being humans and being able to keep that balance of showing and sharing all these experiences that are very special and inspiring for others, but also respecting their terms, feeling that their identity is respected and conserved, because it's very important for us that. So, yeah, I think at the moment, things are going very well, and the fishermen and the collaborators are very happy with the results. And one way to see that is that they want to come back and they want to keep tagging more sharks and sharing more stories. So, as you were saying, like, things are changing, and always you have new stories or experiences that you can share with others.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: That is so fantastic. And of course, I have to ask, do you have any updates about orcas itself, your organization? You've been giving me so many project updates and beautiful stories of attacking more sharks. But I would also love to hear from you and your amazing ladies in your organization. Do you have any updates that we need to know about? What's the up and up?
[00:28:26] Speaker C: Well, I think we have been working really hard on creating, like, our work plans. Like, we are getting much more structured, more serious about the things that we are doing. Like, we have more, like, a clear path of the things that we can do and how we want to do it. We also improve a lot into the image I haven't showed you, but we have new uniforms, so the captains wear the hat with the logo and everything. So that's something very symbolic, but it's also making a big difference.
We have more people in the team, and as I was telling you in the beginning, now more students want to get involved. So that's super cool. They see my experience and others orcas as, like, role models. In the future, in ten years, I want to be like you. So that's something very, very meaningful for us. And we want them to give them that chance, because sometimes in academia, and don't talk in general, but in some cases, the professors doesn't give them the chance to the students to be active in conservation. So being that platform that allows them to step up and say, you can do something now, like, you don't have to wait to be the professional PhD or whatever to be able to do something. So having that chance to promote those activists and those conservationists in the communities to be able to inform other students is something really, really cool. So we have now ten students that are actively working with us, creating events and being able to talk and discuss things. That worries them.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:30:12] Speaker C: Incredible.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: Of course, I mean, I've been so blown away by you and your work ever since I met you. So I'm so happy and not at all surprised that all of you are crushing it and that everything's still coming along. I'm sure there's been bumps along the way, but you're overcoming them and making the most of it. So before I let you go today, Frida, is there any last story that you want to leave with? Is there anything that comes to mind you want to share with us?
[00:30:44] Speaker C: Something that wasn't like real into our goals was to create natural leaders in their communities. But because they are getting more information, they are getting capacitations and we discussed many subjects and we are trying to bring that real information to the communities they are creating like natural leaders. And we are promoting more and more their social participation in the discussions about a new management plan or a creation of a new protection. So it's really cool and inspiring that if you go through the whole process, at the end you create people that is feeling that they have the tools already or the knowledge and also they see the necessity of changing things and being able to promote that is very, very important. And I think that's something that I feel super proud of.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: Amazing.
Well, thank you again for sitting down with me and sharing some that wild tiger shark story and then all of the updates that you have going on. Again, just love the way something that.
[00:31:57] Speaker C: We are doing now, we are creating science camps. So in this week we are taking kids that are eleven years old to talk about sharks. And in the last part of the course is going to be camping with the shark fishermen and going out and showing them the nature and the like, sharing all this knowledge. So it's really cool to be able to work more with the schools and being able to take them through the process to know more about the importance of sharps and everything. So yes, going very well.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: Yes. The impacting the next generation is so big. I was actually just recently asked back to my old school and I presented to all of the 7th graders in the science, science class. So that was very impactful as well. And planting the seeds in the next generation. It's so important. It is so important, especially in rural places. I grew up in a very rural place. It's a rural school. So you know, you can do more, you can be more. You can go to these new places, you can see these things, you can have the impact that you want. And so sometimes they just need to be shown that it's possible. So that is beautiful. I'm so glad that you're also able to do that now where it's not just focusing on the adults now you're able to also impact the kiddos in the area. That's awesome, Frida, that's great. You've got, you've thought of everything. I'm sure you're so busy, right?
[00:33:29] Speaker C: It's a big team and the team is growing. So we have chances to achieve more goals and get more responsibilities and also being able to, to split the work and to be able to delegate. So now I know who is in charge of who and it's easier to work as a team and collaborate with other NGO's or other groups. So I think that's why things are going well.
[00:34:01] Speaker B: Teamwork makes a dream work.
We don't have to do it all ourselves, that's for sure.
Well, that's great. Frieda, thanks again for sitting down with me today and I can't wait to get these stories out. They're so fun from the perspective of a professional diver, scientist and tourism leader from under the water. Amazing.
[00:34:25] Speaker C: Thank you very much for the opportunity and I always enjoy talking to you and I hope you can come one.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Day and see oh girl, I'm coming, I'm coming. We're going to have some conversations offline and just trust me.
Thank you for joining me on this wild adventure today.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: I hope you've been inspired by the incredible stories, insights and knowledge shared in this episode. To learn more about what you heard, be sure to check out the show
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[00:36:08] Speaker B: A big thank you to the guests.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: That come onto the show and share their knowledge with all of us and to all of you rewad ALG listeners for making the show everything it is today.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: This is Brooke signing off.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Remember, together we will rewild the planet.
