[00:00:00] Speaker A: When science and art collide, magic happens. In the realm of wildlife photography, a well timed click of the shutter can capture more than just beauty. It can reveal intricate ecosystems, document animal behavior, and highlight urgent environmental challenges.
Welcome to Rewildology, the nature podcast that explores the human side of conservation, travel and rewilding the planet. I am your host, Brooke Mitchell, conservation biologist and adventure traveler.
Today we're diving into the world of wildlife photography with Mark Bernards, the winner of our 2024 Earth Day photo contest.
Mark and I have so much fun exploring his journey from nature enthusiast as a child to a scientist in college to an accomplished wildlife photographer and conservation storyteller as an adulthood. We also discuss how his skills in photography developed over the years, complete with lots of tools and advice for aspiring and seasoned photographers alike. Furthermore, in one of my favorite parts of this conversation, Mark shares his perspectives on fatherhood and how his daughter has changed the way he views his photography and hopes for the future.
So whether you're an aspiring conservationist or professional storyteller, Mark's insights will inspire you to see the world through a new lens.
Before I let you go, please be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you are listening, and follow the show on your favorite social media app. Also, please engage with rewadology online by sharing your favorite episodes, sending a DM, or tagging rewrodology in something cool and interesting. I so enjoy hearing from you and.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: I hope to chat with you soon.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: All right, everyone, please enjoy this thoughtful conversation with Mark.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Oh, is that a nice beer that you have there?
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Mm hmm, it is. What's it called? So it's from collective Arts Brewing, which is a brewery in Hamilton, which is near Toronto. If you're unfamiliar with canadian cities. I think it's called ransack the universe.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Oh, wow. That's a fun name.
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. Getting all in the mood for our chat today, which I absolutely love and fully support.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: So let's go back in time.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Let's go back pre beer time.
Mark, tell me, what is the story that led you to today? Take me to wherever you want to begin. I would love to hear it.
[00:02:49] Speaker C: Sure.
So, well, I guess let's go back farish to childhood. I always grew up.
I loved animals from as far back as I can remember. Some of my, probably what got me the most interested in wildlife and conservation and all that. That whole field is. My grandmother was a volunteer at the Toronto Zoo for, I think it's like 25 years or something, like she's recently stopped, but she was a volunteer for a really long time. And so from. Probably from the moment we could walk, she was taking us to the Toronto zoo and kind of, like, getting us in the. In the behind the scenes a bit stuff because she had, like, a little bit of access, being a volunteer and stuff. And we did. We went to their zoo camp, their summer camp, every single year from. I think from. I was maybe seven years old the first time I went.
And I did that all the way through till I wasn't allowed to go anymore because I was too old.
And then. And then I actually went back for a summer and I worked as a camp counselor there for a summer as well. So that was kind of. I was super big into the Toronto Zoo or, like, to zoos in general, although that's the only. The only one I've actually visited is the Toronto zoo because I don't. Haven't traveled a ton. But anyway, so that was, you know, that was really, really helped foster my love of animals. And really, there was all that, so much education about conservation, not just what they do, the Toronto zoo themselves, but then, like, you know, other issues that maybe they don't necessarily tackle, but they have all the education there and everything. And then my grandmother as well, was super, super knowledgeable, and she shared a lot of stuff with us.
So kind of the importance of conservation has been a part of my just mindset from a really young age. And then I started there with this little story because the zoo is actually why I got into photography in the first place as well. My first camera I bought because I wanted to start taking pictures of the animals that I kept seeing at the zoo.
So that's where that started. For probably the first five or six years that I owned a camera, it basically sat on a shelf until we went to the zoo. And then it came out and I took thousands of pictures. And then that would, like, that was. That was kind of it. And then.
So I actually. I kind of. Not that I ever lost an interest in. In wildlife and conservation, but I kind of, throughout grade school and high school, the. What we learn in a biology class is very much like, you know, cell biology, kind of the organ systems. I mean, there's not a ton of, like, ecology and, like, animal behavior and all that kind of stuff. So I never really considered biology as a. As an option. When I went into university and I. When I started my undergrad, I was. I started in math because I thought, well, I'm good at math and I kind of want to be a teacher.
That's kind of where I started. I took one year of math courses and in university math is very different from high school math where you start getting imaginary numbers and things like that. I just kind of, I was like, you know, this is like, there's no way I'm doing this for four years.
So I switched programs a couple of times.
And at some point along the way I learned that there's more to biology than cells and organs. And I think it was one of my, I want to say it was like my orientation week, team leader person was in biology and she said something about like, she was really excited about her animal behavior course and I was like, they teach animal behavior. Well, like what, how do I, like, I want to do that? So I ended up switching, I switched schools entirely, actually. Um, for a number of reasons. I started in Ottawa. Um, my family is from London, which is, it's about a six hour drive from Ottawa. So it was, you know, getting home for, for holidays and things. It was tough.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Not a flight, but a drive.
[00:07:09] Speaker C: Well, a train. I usually took the train and that was a, about a seven or nine hour trip, depending on how long my layover was.
And so part of it was why I wanted to move close to home. I had recently, sort of recently within that year, I had started dating my now wife who was getting into vet school in, which was in Guelph, which is only about an hour and a half away from London. And so I switched there because they also have a zoology program. And at the time I was kind of like, I don't want anything to do with plants. I don't want anything to do with fungi. I just want to learn about animals. And that's it. I regret that now because I wish I knew more about plants and fungi and all that cool stuff. But anyway, so that's where I ended up in Guelph. I finished my undergrad there. I went on and did a master's, which was less about conservation and more just kind of like, more of like, it was, it was all fully in lab. It was more like a, like a basic science kind of thing. So kind of learning about physiology, I kind of went, I guess, came full circle where it ended up that the cell and organ and physiology stuff ended up being interesting again somehow, and ironically. Yeah, exactly.
And so then by the time I finished my master's, I had kind of, I was done with academia. I went into my master's thinking, like, I'm going to go on, do a PhD, do postdocs maybe. You know, I, it's not easy to do, but like, get a faculty position. That was kind of the trajectory I thought I was on. By the end of my master's, I was kind of like, I need to be out of a lab. I need to not be doing this. Kind of, like, the realm of academia was not really for me. And so then I ended up start doing this really, really short postgrad college program called environmental visual communications. So it was literally taking, like, it was, it was like a crash course on all kinds of communications. So photography, videography, writing, communications, like social media, that kind of stuff, but specifically focused on conservation and science communication, that kind of stuff. So I went into that program thinking, like, okay, like, I have a science background. I love science, I love communicating science, and I love photography. So, like, this felt like a, you know, like, I'll learn more about photo, because at this point, I was still very much like, I have a camera. It's set on full auto mode. I walk around, I see things that I think look cool. I push the shutter button and hope it works out. And so through this program, I did, you know, learn how to use my, my camera properly, or at least start learning how to use my camera properly. That's also the program that got me more introduced into, like, what graphic design is. And so that is now my. My job now is to do graphic design primarily, but then also some communications for an environmental nonprofit. So that was a bit of a roundabout, weird kind of way for my education to go, but. And so there were times when, like, by the time I finished my masters and decided I didn't want to go on and do academia, I was like, well, that kind of feels like that was maybe a waste of time because I don't see if I'm going to. I don't see how that's going to help me in the future. But that being said, the reason I got hired for my. I mean, I don't know specifically, but I think having that master's was a huge reason why I got the job that I have. Because at the. At least when I was first hired, my job was specifically to help communicate this big science monitoring undertaking that this organization was working on. And so having that strong science background mixed with the communications, the communication skills as well, was just kind of the perfect mix. And then, you know, I've been there for almost five years now, so that's awesome. And then I guess circling back, because the reason I'm here is photography, I. So photography was kind of a peripheral thing for, through all of this. It was something like I'd go for a hike, I'd bring my camera, and if I saw cool wildlife or cool landscapes, I'd take photos. You know, since this program, which was, you know, five, I guess, six years ago, I knew I was using the settings a bit better, but I still, you know, was very much just like, I see something cool, I know how to expose it properly myself and know how to use the focus modes properly. But I, in terms of, you know, what makes a good photo, I still was just kind of like winging it. Like, I didn't really know what I was doing. And it was still very much a passive, not a passive, but like a peripheral hobby. It was something I did occasionally. And then the pandemic hit, and I suddenly had, instead of riding a bus for two to 3 hours a day, I had, like, I no longer had a commute. And so I decided, like, you know what? Maybe I'll go for a walk in the local woods. I've seen foxes in there once in a while while. So instead of sitting on a bus for an hour and a half this morning, I'm gonna go hang out in the woods for an hour and a half. Hopefully I'll see this fox. Hopefully I'll get a cool picture. And so then I actually never saw a fox again in that forest, but I did see there. So there are two kind of experiences in there that really, like, drove home that like, oh, yeah, wildlife photography in the city doable and is like a, it's, it's something that I want to do is. So one, one afternoon, I finished work a little bit early. The sun was, like, kind of starting to set. And I decided, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go out and flu. It's like, why not? I have nothing else to do. And then I saw my first owl ever that day. And so that, or, sorry, technically second owl. I saw owls, wow. In Costa Rica several years before, but somehow that didn't really register how cool that was. And I wasn't really into photography yet at that point. But anyway, so I count this, this barred owl in my local woods. I count that as my first owl. And that was kind of like a spark to be like, holy crap, there is cool stuff right in the city. And then maybe two weeks later, I came.
It was maybe 20ft away from a coyote, just like, walking down the path the opposite direction. And we both just kind of stopped and, like, just watched each other for a few seconds. And then the coyote, like, turned, took a few steps back along the path, like, the way it came stopped and turned and looked back at me. And so that's. And that's when I started taking photos. I took a bunch of photos then, and that's, like, there's one of those that's still, like, one of my favorite photos, both from just, like, a, you know, personal memory point of view. But then also, it was at a point when I was, like, learning photography well enough that I'm still, like, it's one of my best photos, I think. And so that was kind of very much just, like, hitting home that I was like, okay, this wildlife photography thing is cool. And I started taking it more seriously, actually, funny enough, I saw my second owl that same day as the coyote. So it was very much like this. These couple of weeks.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: We're just like, you know, this little. So the crazy thing that I still kind of can't believe is that this little. I figured out how big it was, and now I can't remember what it is, but it was this. It's this tiny little patch of woods in the middle of the suburbs, and it's, like, maybe two blocks wide. Like, it's a tiny little forest. It has coyotes that live there. It clearly has at least two owls, because I've seen two. Like, I saw two different owls in the same day on a much later date. And it had this leucistic red squirrel. So it's like a. Not quite albinism. So it was a white squirrel, but it still had a bunch of, like, the orange fur. So it's just. It was just really, like, I mean, that's not a, you know, a squirrel isn't crazy wildlife, but it was just this unique little individual. But anyways, it was. It was just really cool that this tiny little patch of woods, disconnected from all other natural areas, was just, like, teeming with wildlife. And not just, like, squirrels and chickadees that, you know, you can see anywhere. It was like, these kinds of animals that until that point, I kind of figured, like, you have to trek into the, you know, go far north of Canada into the boreal forest and, like, camp for weeks before you can see an owl. Like, I didn't think owls were a thing you could see in the city. So maybe naive on my part, maybe I should have known those things, but it was just kind of this eureka moment, I guess, or something like that. Yeah.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Oh, wow. That is such a beautiful journey. And I think we've all had our own versions of our eureka moments. And one thing that I love about your story that I just. I want to bring up this point, because one of the main reasons why I ask this question to everybody that comes on is all of our journeys to what we're doing now are so wildly different. Like, you know, someone might come on instagram and they see your beautiful photos, or they know that you won our earth Day contest or something like that, and they only see you from this one lens. They see you as a wildlife photographer. So to hear that you actually have a very strong science background and you use these other art forms, these environmental communication classes, to then get yourself a career that is in an art field. Graphic design because of your science backgrounds, and then we're sitting down because of photography. Like, I just want to bring this home and just show that we can be multifaceted in this field because I feel like it's so easy for us to get siloed. Like, you know, I have a hardcore science background as well, but then I realized that I'm good with people and that's not a common trait in our field. And also that while I am good at science and I'm really good, I was an a plus student. I was, like, freaking. I had to get a's or, like, I wasn't. Yeah, I was one of those crazy people that, like, there's all these other ways to make impact. You know, there's these other career fields that I didn't even know about at the time. And so just to hear your journey and what. And how you got almost full circle, it sounds like you've had, like, a couple full circle moments in your career, which is so cool. So I want to bring that up again, just like, you have this really crazy science background and you've been able to merge them. And I also think that just goes to show how important it is nowadays to have multiple different skill sets. You know, like, you now have this career that is art focused. But again, just like you said, more than likely the reason why you're so good at it and why you got it is because of your hardcore science degree. Like, see, this is. Yeah, I love your story. That was fantastic. Cause you didn't even tell me that stuff last time, so I'm, like, pleasantly surprised. That was so cool. So let's start diving into your photography then, because I would love to hear how it has evolved for you. And on that note, too, like, I mean, you don't have to go into, like, oh, these are my f stops or something like that. But maybe could you possibly give pointers to us listening? Like, what do you think changed the quality of your photography, what were those, those things that clicked in your mind that turned your photos into something beautiful that you could then tell a story from? What were those things that changed for you?
[00:18:58] Speaker C: Sure.
So there's a bunch. So one big thing, there's not necessarily something that's changed in terms of, like, photography technique or anything, but one thing that's made a huge difference is that I've started connecting a bit more with other photographers, other wildlife photographers, and just like, talking not always about wildlife photography, but like, I one. So a guy I used to work with who's also a great photographer, his name's Alejandro shout out APC Wildlife 15 on instagram. He's a phenomenal shooter. Great guy. Worked with him. So he joined Ottawa Riverkeeper shortly after I did. We worked together for a few years, and so we bonded about, over wildlife photography, and we chatted about wildlife photography a lot. We went out shooting together a bunch of times. And he's a much more social guy than I am. He'll message people on Instagram and chat and make connections that way. I'm a lot more of like a, I'll think to message some or like, I mean, half the time I can't even, I don't even think, like, what could I say? But then if I do, I'm like, oh, what if they think I'm weird and then I just don't send it? Anyway, so he, he had kind of found a group of people that he, he was chatting with, and he invited me to join that. What's that group?
And so that's been a really, like, I've learned a lot in there. There's some guys who have been shooting for a long time. A lot of guys who are big into, like the, or not necessarily big into, but, like, really knowledgeable on, like, the technical side of photography, which is definitely something I've always and still kind of lack, to be honest. Like, I, there's a ton. I don't know about how to use my camera. Sometimes I go into the menu and there are settings. I'm just like, I don't even have a guess what that could be. So that's one thing. Like, find a community.
It doesn't have to be a big group of people. It doesn't have to be, you know, big name people. It could be a random just like. And maybe it's better, actually for it to be people who are kind of in your, you know, peer is kind of, maybe pure is the closest word to what I mean, but, like, people. So these are other guys who just go out and shoot in their. In their, you know, their backyards kind of thing, same as me. So it's kind of, we're shooting the same kinds of stuff.
So there's a lot of, you know, you can be like, hey, I've been trying to shoot this animal, or I've been looking for this animal, having a hard time finding it. What kind of habitats? Do you have any tips or anything like that? And they'll like, chances are someone in that group will have tips for you.
So that's one piece of advice, I would say. Find some similar people shooting similar things. Find a community to kind of be a part of and to chat about wildlife photography.
That's probably been the biggest thing in terms of my learning curve with wildlife photography and improving, is just chatting with these guys in terms of specific things about wildlife photography. One big one that I think made a huge difference for me would be learning about learning about, but, like, realizing that perspective makes a huge difference. So you can see, let's say you're standing on the. On a riverbank, and you're standing there and you see a duck a couple meters into the water. You can take a photo standing up, and that looked like. That might look cool, that might look like a really nice photo of a duck, but if you lie down on that bank and get eye level with that duck and shoot essentially the same photo, but you're just a lower perspective, it's gonna be a. It's a world of difference, and it's not necessarily something you think of until it's been pointed out and until you compare those two different. Those two different perspectives.
Generally speaking, I think the rule is kind of like, aim for eye level. Try to get eye level with whatever you're shooting. But that's not necessarily always the case because, you know, perspective can be, you know, if you're. If you find a frog or something, maybe the cool perspective is from directly above, straight down onto it. So it's. Perspective matters big time. And be creative with it would be a big piece of advice I'd put there. And the other one, the big one for me, I think, is either shoot something that hasn't had been shot before or shoot something in a way that it hasn't been shot before. Because if you. You can take, you know, the nicest, cleanest, sharpest photo of a. Of a mallard on a lake, and it could be, technically speaking, a perfect photo, but nobody's going to look at that and say, wow, like that. That's incredible, because it's it's a photo they've seen before. So many people have taken technically perfect photos of ballards, but if you. You know, that same mallard, I don't know, does something crazy, I can't think of anything crazy a mallard would do that you haven't seen before. But, like, say that Mallard gets, you know, gets in a fight with, I don't know, a beaver. Right? Like, that's a photo that's gonna make people say, wow. So I think, look for things that haven't been photographed before or photograph them in ways that haven't been done before, because people want to see something they haven't seen before that's going to make the biggest impact. So, yeah, so my kind of, um.
I don't know. I've said this so many times. Um, but to this group of photographers I'm with, but, like, a good photo of a great moment is going to be more. Nothing better, because art is subjective. But, like, a good photo of a great moment will. Will impress more people than a great photo of a good moment, if that makes sense.
So, to a. To a certain extent, like, you know, the better your technical skill is, obviously, the better the photo is going to be. Like, a sharp photo. A great photo of a great moment is better than a good photo of a great moment, obviously. But up to a certain point, like, if you're. If you're hitting a, you know, an eight out of ten on the image quality scale at that point, kind of think more creatively and try and take creative shots, you're gonna. You're gonna get more out of shooting more creatively at that point than you are gonna be improving your technical skill, if that makes sense.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Yes, that makes total sense, and that's fantastic advice. I could, like. I completely agree with that. Like, I. I still don't call myself a wildlife photographer, which, if somebody looks on the stuff that I post, they would probably argue with that statement, because almost everything I post is wildlife. But that's not the mission of what I'm posting, nor is it. I'm not seeking perfection. I'm seeking sharing the beauty of our planet. And so I think what you just said is actually perfect advice, because I started to get to the point, especially if you're on Instagram and all these other platforms where you get a lot of, you know, imposter syndrome and comparing yourself to others, because my photos aren't going to be as good as some of, I'm sure, our mutual friends or people that we follow and we know simply because it's not what I do. I don't have the same gear, you know? Like, that's not the intent of my travels. My intent is to share conservation stories and the beauty of our world.
So, yeah, that was. That was fantastic advice. Like, just like you said, a good photo of a great moment is going to be, like, that perfect photo of a kind of meh moment. And I find myself in a lot of really cool, like, this is unbelievable moments. So me just making sure my camera is on is, like, my number one priority. Like, just shoot and see what happens half the time. And, you know, sometimes cool things happen, especially with mirrorless, when you're like, it's really helpful.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: But on that, I think this is a good extension. For my next question, I would love to ask you, especially since you do work in the conservation world as well, and from our last conversation, it sounds like you do, you are able to then use your own work to tell conservation stories. So let's chat about that for a while. What do you see as the intersection between wildlife photography and conservation? How can they be used in partnership together? Like, how can wildlife photography tell the strongest conservation stories in your mind? I would love to chat about it.
[00:27:24] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. I mean, the easiest, obvious answer is, beautiful photos of beautiful nature and wildlife is awe inspiring. If you show something to someone and say, like, check out this super beautiful animal, you know, people are gonna see that and be like, wow, that's a really cool animal. I love that. And then if you tell them, you know, this animal is in danger, they're like, oh, what can I do to change that? So just sharing the beauty of nature is a, you know, it's. It's really. It's easy, but it's. It can be really effective as well. So that's a kind of the. The easiest way to do conservation photography is just take beautiful photos of wildlife and share it with some messaging about, like, we need to protect this. So, because people, this is the thing that we say a lot at my work, is that people protect what they love.
And I'm sure you've heard that before a lot. So people protect what they love. And so if you can show people the beauty of nature and really inspire them and make them see, like, how beautiful nature can be, they'll fall in love with it and they'll want to protect it. So there's. That's kind of the easiest way to get in with that. Photography can also be a really powerful tool when you photograph the things that are not so beautiful. So I'm thinking things like, you know, a wide angle photo of a clear cut forest or, like a, you know, where half the photo is forest, the other half is clear cut. That's like, that's a really powerful image. Or photos. Some photos that actually. That I took that were.
They go down as the.
What I call the best photos I wish I never took.
On our way home from a camping trip, we saw a snapping turtle in the road, and she was, like, right in the middle of one of the lanes, and we. So we pulled over and we were waiting for a break in traffic to help her across, and in that time, two cars hit her and crush her. And, like, it was just, like, devastating and awful to see. But so then the photo, like, all I could do at that point was. Was take some photos we. And we collected. There were, like, six eggs that had, like, eggs and intestines were flown out everywhere, and it was. It was just, I don't know, traumatic.
But so we. We grabbed the six eggs that were still intact and not. And, like. And outside of her, who knows if they survived? We'd, like. We have no idea. But anyway, so at that point, like, all I could do is take photos, but now I have these. These really emotional photos that you can share and be like, we need to, you know, slow down for turtles. Keep an eye out for turtles when you're driving in areas anywhere near water. So. So that, like, imagery can be so powerful.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's really. I guess that's all. That's all there is to it, is that imagery. Imagery can be really. Can be way more powerful than words. You know, like, you can say, hey, slow down for turtles because they sometimes have to cross the roads to get to their. To find their nesting sites. And people are like, yeah, all right, okay, sure. But then this photo is kind of like, here's why. Because, you know, car versus turtle.
Car wins. And then I just thought of something else. Oh. So I guess another part of it, too, is you can kind of share.
This is something I don't do a ton of, but you like photographing conservation work. So taking photos of people out in the field doing work for conservation, those can be really powerful images as well because you're kind of showing, like, they're great for those good news stories, which is something that's. That's really hard to come by in wildlife or in conservation work. There's a lot of bad news stories, and so we kind of have to consciously find those good news stories and share them. And I think photographing people doing conservation work is a great way to do that.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: Absolutely agree. Yes. Yeah. Those are all fantastic examples. And I think that this is a really good point then, to bring up your image.
You won the photo contest with your beautiful image. And I would love to just what is this story? How did the image come to be? And of course, like, I'll. For anyone who hasn't seen it, I will make sure that it's on the YouTube version of this episode, and then it's already on the website, you're already there for the photo contest, and then it'll be. It'll be everywhere, you know? That's what I'm saying. But for those who are listening to it right now, describe what this photo was and then how did it come to be? What was your thinking when you decided, like, I want to take this photo? Um, yeah, so just tell us.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: How'd it come to be?
[00:32:11] Speaker C: Yeah, so this. This was kind of a. I guess so. We have to go back a year to kind of start where this. This photo journey came from. I guess so. Where I live now, there's a. We have a path right behind our house, my. My house, that goes straight to this huge, protected green space. So that, like, that's. That's such a. I don't know, blessing feels like the wrong word, but that's all I can come up with right now. So there's this. Just this giant green space, but. So the path that's right behind my house is there because of. There's like, hydro lines. And so if you turn out and go down that path towards the forest, the hydro lines keep going. And there's a little. So there's a clearing that follows all the way down there. And just like, in that clearing, or somewhere along that clearing, there's this little.
Hardly a pond. It's. It's. It's very much a, um. What's the word? Ephemeral pond. Like, it. It fills up with water when it rains a lot. And if it, like, there's no. There's no streams flowing into it. There's no stream flowing out. It's just like. It's a puddle, basically. It's a big puddle, but it is just swarming with frogs in the spring. Like, it's. It's. You can hear them. It's probably 500 meters away, but you can hear them from my backyard. Like, it's. It's insane how many frogs there are. So there was one one evening I went and just kind of hung around there looking for frogs, just waiting around this pond for a couple of hours, my ears were just ringing when I. When I got home. It was. It was the equivalent of, like, standing next to the speakers at a concert. Like, it was insane how loud they are.
And I took some. Some photos that I really, really like of those, of those frogs. And one of them actually was. It didn't make it further than this, but it was shortlisted in the wildlife photographer of the year, like the big photo contest. And so that. So, like, I, you know, it was a really cool spot and I got these, like, environmental wide angle kind of photos of them.
And so that, like, that was kind of my inspiration to be like, I want to shoot more frogs. I want to take more photos of frogs. I want to go to this pond and take more photos and I want to do it, you know? But as, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I want to do it in a way that's different. I want to photo. I don't want to just take photos of frogs. I want to take new, interesting, unique photos of frogs. So I. I bought this really, really cool, crazy niche specialized lens that's a 24 millimeter macro probe lens. So it's like, I don't know, 40 cm long or something that's like, literally a probe. And it's waterproof up to, I think it's like 2020 5. It is waterproof so you can stick it into the water and take photos. And it has, like, leds around the front, so for to make. To put light onto the scene.
And so I brought that and it was like, I'm going to see if I can take photos of frogs with this. So that's this spring. This next spring I'm back with this lens. And so, wading around this pond trying to find frogs, I noticed that there's these clumps of eggs attached to little grass and plants and stuff in there and like, oh, that's cool. Maybe I'll poke that with this problin, see what happens. And so that's basically where that photo came from. I was like, what would happen if I just took a photo of these eggs? And so, actually, I should point out, I think I called that photo frogspawn. I later learned I'm pretty sure they are actually salamander eggs. So that's just a little.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Oh, really?
[00:36:05] Speaker B: What's the difference?
[00:36:07] Speaker C: So, as far as I can tell, the salamander eggs are more like. Well, so, like, in the image, they're more just kind of individual eggs kind of floating in a massive goo. And the frog eggs are kind of more kind of densely packed together. They're almost more. I actually have photos of frogs eggs as well that I can share that. So you can kind of compare them, like maybe on the YouTube or whatever. So they're kind of more. They look more like.
They almost look more like cells, like taking cells under a microscope. So you have, like, the little embryo is like the nucleus, and then you have kind of. They're almost like hexagonal because they're all kind of clumped up next to each other. So they're almost. It's almost like if you looked at skin under a microscope or something like that.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so cool. Well, if we need to change, if I need to update the name of a photo, by all means, please let me know.
But that is. That is like the coolest story I've. I mean, all of us that who voted on the winning image were like, how did he even do this? You know? Like, because that's. That's what it looks like. It almost looks like you're under a microscope, like, looking at these things, but it makes so much more sense that you had, like, a probe lens.
I've never even heard of that. That's amazing.
[00:37:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, I think, cool.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: How cool. And what do you hope that the.
What's the message, then, that you hope that this image conveys?
[00:37:41] Speaker C: This is kind of a boring answer, but really that specific image is more just like, kind of abstract. That one's kind of more for beauty. For beauty's sake, in my. Kind of. In my view. But there's also, you know, amphibians are kind of not necessarily the most vulnerable, but, like, amphibians are super, super vulnerable to things like climate change. So I don't know if I'd say that that image specifically necessarily tells that story, but it is kind of, you know, kind of going back to that first point about how photography can be used for conservation. You know, like, that image doesn't necessarily tell the story that amphibians are vulnerable to climate change, but you can kind of be like, check out this. This abstract piece of art. If we keep warming the planet, this, you won't be able to see this anymore kind of thing. So.
So, yeah, the photo itself doesn't necessarily send a message, but it can, you know, it can. It can boost a message, I guess.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a fantastic way to look at it, too. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it itself is.
It is like a message. Like you said, like a picture is a thousand words. Like, I really do think that that one is, and I think one big thing I would love to get. I would love to chat with you about this topic because it's one that we spent quite a long time on. The last time you and I sat down and had a wonderful, lovely conversation is, you know, you recently became a father, and the way you were chatting, it sounds like it's changed your perspective on a lot of things, which is beautiful. So could you actually tell me a little bit more about it?
What about having your little one has changed your view on maybe conservation or wildlife photography or both?
[00:39:39] Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. So, yeah. So I became a father.
Well, in a week, it'll be five months. So that's, I mean, very fresh. But at the same time, that feels like. Like, how has it been that long already? Yeah. So it's kind of. It's really interesting because I think one of, if there was any reason why I was hesitant to have kids, it was that I was worried about, like, you know, I'm not going to have any time to go out and take photos. Like, I already feel like I don't have enough time to go out and take photos as much as I would want to. When you have a kid, that that's, like, that's the end of it. Like, I'm not taking photos again for years, which is maybe not years, but is to some extent, kind of true. But the. I don't know, the crazy, magical thing of it is that, like, that doesn't bother me because it's kind of.
It's like, I don't feel like I need to be out taking photos because I kind of feel like my perspective on wildlife photography now has kind of.
There's a couple of ways it's changed. One is that, like, there's. I always felt this urgency of, like, it's spring, the frogs are coming out. I need to go out now to take photos of frogs. Like, I need to go before it's too late because they're only here, you know, they're only active for, you know, a month or two. So I need to go out and take photos now. I'm gonna miss my opportunity, and, like, I don't. Like, I can't at this point, I can't be, like, I can't just go now because now is the time for frogs because, you know, baby is crying and I can't go out and take photos today. But that kind of just.
It shifts because now I'm like, okay, well, like, they're gonna be there next year, and they're gonna be there the year after that, there's no, like, there's no reason why I need to take a photo of a frog this year.
So there's, like, it's kind of helped me put a bit less urgency on things, which is, which is a big, like, this is, this is another piece of advice that I didn't mention earlier, but if you're a hobby photographer, there's no reason why it should be stressful. If there's any point when your hobby starts to feel like a job, then, like, don't, don't do it. Nobody's making you do it except for yourself. Take a break. Step away for a week, a month, a year. Like, eventually that passion will come back. If you've lost your passion for it, there's no, nobody's making you do it. So anyway, so that, that's kind of that, that was a little tangent there, but, yeah, so it's kind of, it's helped me just kind of realize that, like, this is, you know, this is something I do for fun. And so there's no, there's no reason why I need to do it now. It'll be there, not necessarily forever. And that's why conservation is a, is an industry that exists. But, yeah, so, like, there's, there's like, I can go back next year. I can wait, you know, I can wait five years. The frogs will still be there in five years. And then the other way that this has helped is that, like, I go out. I still go out every single morning. Not every single morning, but most mornings I still go out and I bring my camera with me. But the difference now is that there's a baby strapped to my chest. So there's now, like, I'm taking her out into the woods with me for, you know, the first four, four and a half months. She was just asleep the whole time, which is, which is fine. There's still, like, that's, you know, that that habit is being formed. And now in the last few weeks or so, she's actually started, like, if we're out for an hour, she tends to sleep for maybe half an hour, and then she's awake and she kind of, like, she just, you know, sits there and watches the trees and stuff, and she's like, I don't know. It's hard to say if she enjoys it because, like, you know, she's not giggling or whatever, but she's also not screaming. So there's that. But it's just kind of, it's this, it's this habit that's being formed. It's you know, I'm not necessarily. Right now, I'm not necessarily actively sharing my love of nature with, like, she's not necessarily absorbing that, that love of nature at this, at this stage yet, but there's kind of my hope is that this, you know, this. This routine becomes a thing that continues for, you know, for years and years and years, and that this. That this is her, um, this is her introduction to, to nature and wildlife, and this is the. The inspiration that, that'll give, get her, you know, whether she works in conservation or not, whether maybe she goes on and does something else. But I, like, I feel like this will be the. Hopefully, this will be the spark that, like, makes her love nature and want to protect the earth. And my real dream is that she develops a love for wildlife photography because that's kind of my, like, looking into the future. My. My future dreams of it, that we go out together into the woods and spend hours just hanging around waiting for wildlife and stuff. So, yeah, I think of this time as it's kind of. I'm not shooting as much as I used to, but I see this as, like, this is an investment. This is like me putting in the time, sharing something that I love and that hopefully, hopefully it sticks. And in the future, you know, I'll get to shoot more because that'll be, you know, a father daughter activity will be going out and taking photos. So that's kind of. That's what I'm hoping for. We'll see how it works out.
[00:45:27] Speaker B: Wow, that was such a beautiful story, Mark. Seriously. I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of people felt that whether or not they were a mother or father, that is just such a.
Yeah, I don't know.
It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Just hearing you talk about your daughter and the hope for the future and just showing her this beautiful planet of ours that's right in her own backyard, like, that'll instill in her. She'll. She's smart. She'll figure it out pretty quickly, I'm absolutely sure, which is awesome.
Well, I. On that very, very warm, heartfelt note, Mark, thank you again for sitting down with me, for entering your photo, for everything, for sharing your art and your science and your words, for the better of conservation, for the wildlife in your backyard, and for the country of Canada, since I know you work on conservation projects. So that's great. And a huge shout out to the canadian conservation Photographers collective. Of course, I'm pretty sure that Josh is who let everyone know about the contest and so again, I'm really glad that you submitted and hopefully next year there, who knows, we'll see who the judges are, we'll see who inters and everything. But again, Mark, thank you for sitting down with me and everybody listening and sharing your beautiful story with all of us.
[00:46:57] Speaker C: Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, it was great. A lot of fun.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: Thank you for joining me on this wild adventure today. I hope you've been inspired by the incredible stories, insights and knowledge shared in this episode. To learn more about what you heard, be sure to check out the show
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[00:47:35] Speaker B: Mean the world to me.
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This is Brooke signing off. Remember, together we will rewild the planet.
