[00:00:00] Speaker A: What if the key to protecting our planet's wildest places lies not in the depths of the jungle, but in the diversity of the people studying them? Today, we're exploring a story of transformation, not just of ecosystems, but of the very field of ecology itself.
Welcome to rewildology, the nature podcast that delves into the human side of conservation, travel and rewilding the planet. I am your host, Brooke Mitchell, conservation biologist and adventure traveler.
I'm thrilled to welcome to the show doctor Rae Wingrandt, PhD, the newest co host of mutual Vomahas Wild Kingdom. In case you weren't already aware, Rae isn't just a familiar face on tv. She's a respected scientist, author, and passionate advocate for diversity in conservation.
In our conversation, Rae takes us on a journey through her remarkable career from her early childhood watching nature documentaries growing up to her days in college, followed by her fieldwork studying carnivores and now being a recognized voice in conservation. We also explore her experiences as a black woman in wildlife ecology, how her racial identity has shaped her path in the changing landscape of representation in the field. But thats not all. We also dive into race, shift from a wildlife focus to a human focused approach in conservation, and she gives us invaluable insights on science communication. Trust me, her perspective is both inspiring and thought provoking.
After you listen to our conversation, be sure to tune in on Saturdays to watch Rei work her magic on the latest episode of Wild Kingdom and grab a copy of her new book, Wildlife. It is so good. Trust me.
Before we jump in, just a quick reminder, if you're enjoying the show, hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening and follow rewildology on social media. I always love hearing from you, so share this episode, tag us and send your thoughts on this episode. All right, let's dive in. Get ready for an enlightening and inspiring conversation with Rae.
Well, hi ray. Oh my gosh, I am so excited to sit down with you today and I just want to immediately dive into it. So most people today know your beautiful long list of accomplishments. Like you're a successful carnivore, researcher, you're a respected scientist, an author, podcast host, and the newest host of mutual Omaha's Wild Kingdom. However, I'm sure that most people don't know your full story, so could you maybe go back in time with me for a little bit? Let's go to time machine and explore a little bit. What was Rei like as a little girl and why did you decide to pursue a career in conservation science?
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Oh my gosh I love starting at the beginning. So thank you for having me, and thank you for asking these great questions.
You know, I like to say, like, I'm real regular, like, or at least I started that way. I have awesome parents, two awesome parents and a younger brother. And I grew up in big cities. I was born in San Francisco to, you know, a family that, like, worked hard. We were kind of working class, always living in urban environments. And what surprises people the most is that I did not fall in love with nature because I grew up spending a lot of time in nature. So we were not the family that went to national parks on vacation or went hiking or camping or really explored the outdoors together. To this day, I can say I've never been to a national park with anyone in my family. Just, that's not where we came from. You know, it's obviously not obvious from audio, but, you know, I am an african american woman, so I grew up with an urban black family, and it was awesome. So sometimes people are even a bit apologetic where they're like, oh, man, that's so, you know, that's too bad you didn't grow up in the outdoors. And I'm like, I had a great childhood. It was fricking awesome.
You know, cities were great, the places we traveled. Other cities were great.
But I did fall in love with nature, just not through personal experience. It was through watching television. So when I was a kid, my parents really had these strict rules around television.
Even Saturday morning cartoons were not necessarily always available for us, but we were allowed to watch educational programming. When I was a kid in the early nineties, that wasn't a lot. But nature shows counted as far as my parents were concerned. And that was such a hit for me because I just ate them up. I mean, just sitting, you know, in the living room in front of a television screen, which I'm not saying, you know, parents, like, let your kids zone out on tv.
But when I zoned out on nature shows, I was my happiest. And they took me, you know, to jungles and savannas and underwater and, you know, to ice caps and all these amazing places that I never would have been able to go to myself. And it taught me a lot about nature, the environment, wild animals in particular.
And so I went to kindergarten saying, like, I want to be a nature show host when I grow up, you know, and I would, like, tell everybody. And I carried that through. Like, I never stopped wanting to be a nature show host when I grew up. I said it my freshman year of college, the first meeting I had with my advisor.
But it wasn't this linear path. One of the things that was really hard as a kid, as a young black girl, was that nature show hosts were very different from me. They were all men, every single one. They were all middle aged. Many of them were from Britain or Australia. So they had, you know, they had these foreign accents. It seemed like, according to every channel I could find on the television, it seemed like a very exclusive space for only one type of person, and it did not seem like a welcoming space. It did not seem like there were pathways into those careers, right? Like, you couldn't, like, go to your guidance counselor and say, like, okay, how do I become a nature show host? Right? So, you know, in my head as a kid, I thought, like, maybe these people are just born into it, right? Like, maybe David Attenborough's dad was a nature show host, or, you know, a naturalist somehow, and just like, a monarchy. Like, you are like the prince, and you just are born into it. I couldn't understand how else it could be. So what's interesting is that although I knew what I always wanted to do, and I knew what my dream was, I did not necessarily always know that I could do it. So, like, if you'd asked me at any point in my childhood, what do you want to be when you grow up? I'd had my answer. But if someone said, what do you know you can be when you grow up? I would not have said that.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: So then, as you were looking on this path, like, you're sitting with your counselor and you're like, okay, this is the eventual goal. Hopefully one day I'll get there. How did you design your path to get to that greater goal in between?
[00:07:52] Speaker B: So when I arrived at college and I had that meeting with my freshman year advisor, and I said, okay, I'm here at college. This is where dreams come true, right? Like, that's what I've been told, that you make it to college, and that's your ticket to success.
You know, I was very naive at the time. You know, I said I would like to be a nature show host. And my advisor was kind of like, huh, I have never heard that before.
Maybe you could be, like, a theater major, right? Maybe you could learn acting, actors, go on tv. And then she thought, or maybe journalism would be better. Maybe it's kind of like being a news anchor, so you could be a journalist, and that could get you there. And then she thought a little more, and she said, hmm, actually, what about environmental science?
And I was like, great. Never heard of it, but let's give it a shot. And I became an environmental science major that week, my freshman year. And it was a hit, right? It was the exact right thing. And it was through my first couple of environmental science classes that I realized, wait a second.
I was learning science in those nature shows. It's not just entertainment. There's a science behind understanding wild animals, and there's a science behind saving them from extinction. There's a science behind understanding ecosystems and how they work. That was not necessarily made clear in these shows that I was watching science in action. But as a college student, I got it. And I felt so relieved because I thought I might not be able to be a nature show host one day. Cause it's for only this one type of person. But I know I can be a scientist. I'm already here. I'm already in the classroom studying it, and so. And, you know, and then I realized, you know, it's also very purposeful, right? So they're not. These nature shows aren't just about entertainment. You know, just to show you something cool. There's actually this desperate, you know, kind of mission critical purpose of this type of science, which is to, like, you know, restore our planet. We need, you know, healthy, balanced ecosystems again, full of wild animals. So I really found a home in environmental science, and I. It wasn't easy being that student again. Like, identity really came into play. I was the first black environmental science student that my department had ever had, and I was the only one at that time, even though I went to a school that had, like, a pretty considerable black student population. And I went to college in Atlanta that is full of diversity. The environmental space was nothing, and I was taking the classes. I would be geeked out by them, but sometimes would feel really isolated.
I found myself getting into this habit of going to class, doing the work, but socializing outside of class. I would retreat back to my community if there was an environmental happy hour study group or something, I would be like, oh, I'm going to go to the study group with my friends and my people, you know, which is, like all the pre med and pre law, you know, like black students.
A couple of years into my environmental science degree, I realized that, again, something was missing. And what was missing was that I still had not been outside. Like, I still had not had an experience in nature. You know, I was learning about wild animals and forests in a textbook and on PowerPoint presentations, and everyone else in my class was kind of there because they spent a lot of time in nature and I was there because I just thought nature was cool, theoretically.
And so I decided that was unacceptable.
And I didn't necessarily know where to start. I knew that I needed to be led into the wilderness, right? I needed to be, like, to hold someone's hand, you know, not to just go forth on my own. And so I found a study abroad program. I decided I am going to do the most intense environmental science study abroad program that I can find. I am just going to do, like, boot camp, right? Like nature boot camp. So I can catch up with all of my peers in this space. And I found this program. It was through the school for field Studies and which is an organization that still exists and still does environmental study abroad programs around the world. And it was in southern Kenya. It was a wildlife management and conservation, semester long study abroad program in southern Kenya, outside of Ambaseli National park. And kind of located at a campsite within a maasai tribal community.
And I signed up. And my parents were just like, girl, we don't know what to make of this. My parents are very well traveled. They had traveled to this part of Africa before. So it wasn't the location, it was the bush aspect, the remote.
Living at a campsite in a mud hut, studying wild animals, that kind of thing. I remember going to the thrift store with my mom and looking for a backpack and hiking boots. And I got a Nalgene bottle, which was something that was just so ubiquitous in my environmental science classrooms. But I never had a Nalgene bottle and enough stuff that I could just carry myself for a semester. It flew off to Kenya and, you know, the day that I landed. And we drove from the capital of Nairobi, you know, 6 hours to our site. You know, that day I saw my first wild animal. And, you know, off the freeway.
And in the days that followed, you know, I laced up my hiking boots for the first time and took my first hike and pitched my first tent. And I. I was 20 years old when I had this experience, my first, you know, real experience in nature and in, you know, where I come from. That was a late start, you know, to be a young adult and getting outside for the first time. But it was such a magical experience that it helped me realize, oh, yes, absolutely. Like, this is where I belong.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Yes. It's amazing how Africa can do that to all of us. I still remember my first trip, and I just, like, lost my absolute mind the entire time.
Didn't you say that your first species was a marabou stork? Was that the.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: It was yeah. You know, it was so funny. The first animal I saw was a marabou stork. And, you know, even when I say that today, people don't know what I'm talking about. I didn't know what it was. It's not like I looked out the window and was like, look, a marabou stork. I looked out the window and was like, what is that enormous human sized bird that looks a lot like a velociraptor on the landscape? Like, this wasn't in the book. You know, this wasn't in the lion kingdom. What is this?
And it was just.
It symbolized to me that the trip would be full of surprises. Right? That the magic of east african wildlife would not always be the elephants and the lions. It would be these animals that were less iconic, maybe less charismatic, and the experiences that would be kind of unpredictable, that would really shape my time there.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And I loved reading about this experience in your book, and one of the big messages, and you've brought it up a couple times, and I would love to stay on it a little further, is just your identity throughout your career, and some big things happened in Kenya related to your identity. And I would actually like. Would you want to talk about them in your own words? Like, maybe it. Did it really start in Kenya, where you're starting to notice that your identity was. The people were treating you different because of that, and then maybe throughout your career, did that continue on or. Yeah, let's get that out in the open. Let's talk about it. What happened?
[00:16:21] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. As a black woman, as a millennial black woman, my identity, and I mainly mean my racial identity, has, like, come into play throughout my career and in all kinds of ways. Like, in some really yucky, harmful ways, for sure. And then also in some ways that I'm still kind of trying to figure out, like, does that sit well with me or not? Is it okay or not? You know, for example, I've. You know, often. I've always gotten a lot of attention for the work that I do. And I know it's a combination of the work that I do and the fact that I'm a non traditional person in this field. Field. And the attention has been useful. Right. Like, maybe I get more eyes on the projects I'm doing and more people are knowledgeable about the conservation I'm working on or that kind of thing.
But a lot of the times, it's been uncomfortable.
Racial identity, for example, is something you can't change. Someone like, me can't, like, hide it when I want to or use it when I want to. It's just always ever present. And it came up just immediately on the study abroad program in Kenya. And throughout that program, it was a mix of kind of good and bad, if that makes sense. So, for example, as soon as I touch down and get off the plane, and I'm at baggage claim, and this is, like, 2005, so there was Internet, but no one had smartphones, and none of us had cell phones at all on this program, and we weren't connected.
There's a person on the staff that was collecting the students at baggage claim who turned me away, and I walked up to them to say, hi, I'm part of this program.
I'm Ray.
They looked at me and said, oh, no, no. Like, this program is for american students. You must be looking for something else. And I said, yeah, like, it's. It's me. And they're like, this is for, like, a wildlife ecology program for Americans. And, you know, and this person was a black kenyan man. And there's just this assumption that, like, college students from America are white, they're privileged. You know, they are largely male.
That's who we get here. And, like, we don't know if you're kenyan or from somewhere else, but, like, you are a young black woman and you don't belong.
And it's because, like, again, you know, I had said that I was the first and the only black student in my environmental science department at my university. I was also the first black student that this study abroad program had had. Right? So it's not like, you know, they were basing this off of nothing. Like, there had been years and years of students coming through, and no one was ever black, let alone a black woman. So, you know, so, like, hurtful things like that happened. But once I started sinking in with the staff, with the Masai community, being black, even though I realized, very quickly realized that I was so different from the kenyan people that I was with, most of whom were choosing to live a traditional tribal lifestyle, sharing a racial group allowed me access into the communities that other people didn't necessarily have. So I was nurtured. I was kind of mentored. There was kind of this lack of pretense sometimes between us. I was really able to get to know and make friends with other Masai women who typically would not have felt comfortable.
And then my professors for this program, who were black kenyan men, ecologists, they had grown up in Kenya and then left to go to the United States or the UK for their PhDs and came back and decided to teach in their home country.
They loved that I was there. They had been teaching the program for so long without ever having a black student. And they helped me so much, not just seeing that I really aspired to be an ecologist, but just knowing that it was probably a lot harder for me to get there than many of the other students. And they helped me so much. And for the first time, I was able to see black folks in leadership in wildlife conservation, right? Like, I had only seen people on tv, right? And there would be, like, tons of black folks. The tv shows would go to different parts of Africa and other black countries, and there'd be lots of black folks, but never in a position of authority. And so finally, the authority figures in my life, the professors, the experts, were also black. And it, you know, it empowered me, right? That was a type of representation that I never had and I never had again, but it truly empowered me. And so, you know, that's kind of the gist. Like, in a nutshell, my racial, my racial plus gender, my racial gender, age, all the different intersections of my identity have played a big role in my career, mainly in ways that make me stand out. And again, sometimes standing out has been useful. And a lot of times standing out or being so different from everywhere else has been pretty painful and difficult.
And the times that it really showed up the most were when social justice issues came up.
And that started at the beginning for me, too. So it was just a month into me being in Kenya, learning about east african wildlife, just kind of living in this blissful state of having found my spark, that I got news from home through the mail, through snail mail. So it took about a month.
Got news from home that Hurricane Katrina had hit and about 1000 people were dead. And the government response was highly racialized against black folks. And so I was there in Kenya kind of reading the Time magazine, you know, special issue that my parents had sent me in the mail and realizing, like, I will always have social justice and racial justice as a part of my world. Like, and it's got to be a part of my science world and professional world, because here I am, you know, trying to figure out what zebras are eating, you know, and I'm super happy, but I am torn in half because my community back at home is being. Being mistreated, is dying, is having this incredibly unjust experience. And that matters more than zebras do at that moment, right? And so I'm very grateful that that hit me early on in this career.
What has been hard is that it's never stopped, right? So there have been tragedies. There have been a issues. There have been movements. There have been lots of reasons to fight throughout the last 20 years that I've been a wildlife researcher, and for a long time, it was important to me to preach that intersection, to preach that, okay, scientists want a healthy planet. Well, that has to include well resourced, you know, equitable communities. It has to mean, like, safety for all kinds of people. And as a black american, my demographic is still striving for safety, equality, equity, justice, you know, et cetera, let alone many other people from target groups. And so there's just been, you know, it's been back and forth. There have been times where I've worked for conservation organizations that very much feel that social justice is a big part, a big foundation of the work. And there have been times that I've worked for different conservation organizations that have really had a hard time with that idea. And I've been able to kind of come up with this articulation.
And it actually happened after the 2016 election, there were a lot of protests in the spaces that I was in.
There was a women's march that a lot of people from my office, you know, went to, and there was a march for science. And that was really important because there was reason to believe that science was going to kind of stop, not get funding anymore or be, like, less important in policy decisions, right? So everyone went out to the March for science or the March for women. And when it came to the March for Black lives, like, everyone was in the office that day, you know, and it helped me realize, you know, okay, if we support science, if we support wildlife conservation, that means we need to support scientists, we need to support wildlife conservationists. And those people are black and brown and female with reproductive health needs and immigrants and from, you know, religious minority groups and people with disabilities and folks from the LGBTIQ community, you know, just the list goes on and on, and no good science is gonna happen. You know, no wildlife conservation progress is gonna happen if people are distracted by their communities being on fire or their rights being taken away. Right? And, like, we gotta save this planet real fast. Like, we've got to, like, dial it up, right? We have no time to spare. You know, wildlife need us. Ecosystems need us. We. Our planet needs us to show up and make some changes. And I think the quickest way to do that is to make sure that human welfare is, you know, is tight, that people are okay, because it's really hard to figure out, you know, to try to figure out what type of ecologist do I want to be? You know, if you're worried that, like, your dad's going to get shot by the police on the way home. So. So that, you know, that articulation really came to me around the 2016 election. Cause I was thinking, if we're upset about this stuff, we have to be upset about all of it, right? If we want science and wildlife conservation and ecosystem protection to move forward really quickly, we have to make sure the people doing it are okay. And if not, then we'll just have one demographic of people doing that work, and that's what we had before, and it hasn't been enough. Right. So, you know, social justice is just the right thing, period, but it's also the thing that can get us towards a healthier, thriving planet quicker.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: And have you seen a progress in the right direction throughout your career? What would you say the landscape is now in 2024 versus 2025, when you really started to get too exposed to this field?
[00:28:08] Speaker B: And it's gotten so much better. It has gotten so much better. It has. Whoa. I mean, honestly, honestly, it's not perfect, and it's not great. And this is just my perspective. There may be people who think differently, but now I can name people in leadership of major wildlife conservation organizations who are women, who are people of color.
There are many fewer environmental science departments today that are devoid of people of color. Students of color are making up much larger numbers of up and coming environmental scientists, you know, conservationists, etcetera. There was a time that I was so alone in this, and the other people kind of. Of my age group, of my generation, you know, and. And, you know, older generations were completely alone all the time. And now there are these communities. Like, there are. There are folks out there, you know? And one thing that's really helped has been social media. Social media can get a bad rap sometimes. But let me tell you, like, I have made most of my black, female wildlife conservation friends from social, you know, just from, like, being made aware of each other, you know, and what we're doing and that we're out there. It helps you, like, not quit even today. The DM's that I get from. From people, and I get DM's every day from women or people of color who say, gosh, I always wanted to do what you do for work. I always wanted to work with wildlife, but I never thought I could, so I quit. But if I had known that you were out there this whole time or that people like you were out there this whole time. I wouldn't have quit. You know, even if we never met, I just would have known I'm not alone in this, and I can keep going.
So, you know, there's still a lot of work to do. You know, I'm still yet to find a lot of conservation projects that have, you know, anti poverty efforts or social justice efforts that are built into the conservation model. But it is on the table in some places, and it's not taboo to talk about anymore.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: Absolutely, because you even talk about in your book and making a slight shift or the next evolution of this thought process of.
Because I was also very wildlife focused when I got in this. I'm getting in here because I love big cats. I love these ecosystems. And part of it might have been because of all the nature shows that I also watched, the human aspect didn't exist. There were no communities that live with this wildlife. They were in these pristine ecosystems. And no, there wasn't wildlife issues. And I didn't realize that until I started to get into the career. I'm like, oh, conservation is actually all about people. It's not really about animals.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah, like, we need to study people. Not people more. Not animals as much.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Exactly. So could maybe you explain this a little bit more from, like, your research and your career in conservation? How did you reach that conclusion from these international places? Because you've been so many places and you've worked with so many communities. When did that switch happen for you that it's not just about the black bears or the lions or it's also about these communities?
[00:31:43] Speaker B: You know, I kind of came into consciousness about how important people are in conversations about wildlife conservation a couple of times. So it actually had to, like, hit me directly in the head many, many times for me to finally get it. And one reason is because I wasn't educated. You know, the way I was educated was in such a traditional western, you know, scientific and economic ecology conservation context that it didn't talk about, like, communities. Or if it did, it was like, it was like, you know, tribal communities that eat bush meat, you know, or something.
Not like, you know, people who live in lake Tahoe. Right, right.
And so, so it hit me in the head many, many times, you know, in different parts of the world. I mean, when I did projects in East Africa or Central Africa or Central America or the United States, each one would have its own local context. And, you know, I have always been such a, like, die hard, like, carnivore ecologist where I'm like, I want to, like, set these traps for these animals and, you know, put the collars on these animals and give them a checkup. And I just want to, you know, bee handling these amazing, iconic wild animals and not necessarily knock on people's doors and offer them a cup of coffee to talk about what living with wildlife is like. But it's always been essential. And more and more, I grew to learn, gosh, it's not just how people are doing currently that matters in local wildlife conservation. It's also the social history of the place. Right? I mean, a lot of the issues that were happening when I was studying in different parts of East Africa were holdovers from the legacy of colonialism. You know, the way that european nations really ravaged land ownership for black Africans in East Africa had a lot to do with what was going on that very day with people and wealth. You know, the way that american demand for corn and corn products, you know, historically was impacting the Jaguar conservation project that I was working on in Panama. Right? Like, the rainforest wasn't being cut down because, you know, local people were like, screw this ecosystem. Let's get it out of here. No, like, Americans had a huge demand for corn products, for corn syrup, for soda, right? And they needed. They're not going to cut down american forests. Heaven forbid. They're going to go somewhere else where it's cheaper and they can, you know, convince folks it's the right idea. And that decreases jaguar habitat, and that drives jaguars into human habitats, and that causes problems. Right? I mean, the.
The places that I worked on bear conservation in the western United States were adjacent to cattle ranches. And the cattle ranching industry used to be a lucrative space. And now in many ways, it is very uncertain. And the market vitality can change, whether it's a good year or a bad year for cattle ranches, that can change their tolerance for having bears walking through their ranches or potentially, like, taking a cow.
So those moments have, again, just kind of smacked me in the face over and over again. And at some point, I finally realized, like, wait a minute, all this human stuff has been left out of my conservation education, but it apparently matters the most. Like, I can study bears all day, but I can't save them unless human attitudes are changed. And human attitudes aren't going to be changed until people's needs are met, right? Like, if communities are poorly resourced, they're not going to be supportive of conservation. They're just trying to survive.
And that, you know, that is something. Again, I'm so grateful that I was able to realize these things, but it's also pretty overwhelming, you know? So it doesn't mean that I necessarily have the answers. I just know that the answers must include a lot of community wellness on the path to ecosystem wellness.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: Absolutely.
This is a really great example. I just had a fantastic conversation. The episode just dropped with a conservation psychologist. And then also, her name is Carabo. She's now becoming a student pilot and a wildlife photographer in South Africa. And it's just such a beautiful example of, like, just the old apartheid system and, like, what had that had done? And, like, all these, like, black communities that were displaced from, like, Kruger and, like, steph was wanting to go in, like, study this, like, how do we get these communities back involved? And then to meet Karabo and, like, her very first time ever seeing an elephant, even though she lived right beside a. Kruger, was doing wild shots. Outreach was. Was the NGO. That was, like, a big part of the conversation. And she was like, what that did to her.
And now her being a leader of these workshops and bringing the grandmothers to bond with matriarchs and, like, you know, these women have never even seen an elephant, and yet they are the bearers of the burden, essentially, of living with these animals and not having resources.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: And, you know, South Africa is such a good example. You know, like, slavery was outlawed in South Africa in 1989. So there's a lot of recent history, let alone not so recent history, that plays a huge role in wildlife conservation today. We can't ignore the fact that people were not free 30 years ago.
We cannot ignore that and then expect people to be like, but my top priority is wildlife conservation.
That's just pretty ridiculous. There's a lot of historical inequalities also in the United States. Right? So in the United States, a lot of the places that I have done conservation work are places that were formerly native landscapes and are no longer right. Indigenous people were violently forcibly removed from those places, still live nearby, but do not have rights to their historic land. And other people have the nerve to not support wildlife conservation on the land that was actually stolen from native folks. So, you know, it's actually interesting. Like, I'm not going back to school.
I don't. I'm not. I am not doing that. I've done enough schooling. But I will say in probably the last five years or so, I have become so interested in environmental history, and I have been just fascinated. And I found it very useful for the way that I understand environmental and conservation problems today is by reading up on my history. And it's something that I don't have a lot of extra time for, but it's been, you know, it's been a big awakening for me.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: And also extending on that, you have been able to translate your fantastic all of your education. I mean, like, you have a PhD and you've done so much stuff across the world, studying carnivores and lemurs and all kinds of stuff. And now you're using your knowledge and, you know, just how you approach your voice, everything to be a leader in the communication space. And now to the point where, like, your dreams come true. You're the co host of Wild Kingdom. That is incredible. So how has this journey unfolded for you? Like, becoming this amazing scientist? You're leading projects and now you're a communicator. Like, you are in this spotlight.
How did you hop on this journey and get your voice to the point now where you are a recognized face on Saturday morning tv, which is incredible. So, yeah, tell me, how'd you do that?
[00:40:03] Speaker B: I both did it and didn't do it. So I played a huge role in my own kind of media success for sure. But also there were some really brave and smart people behind the scenes who made a lot of that happen.
But I will say that here's where identity comes back into the mix, because, you know, starting when I first discovered environmental science as a freshman in college and then all the way through till today, you know, again, my immediate community, which is largely, like urban black folks my age or my parents age, like, has never been a part of my professional community, right? So when I, like, leave the classroom or leave the office, I'm usually spending time with people who are not experts on environmental stuff or wildlife stuff. And so from the very beginning, I had to translate, and I wanted to, you know, like, I wanted to translate all of this information. I remember the first time I ever learned about climate change, and this was in graduate school, believe it or not. I remember the first time I ever learned about climate change. I learned about how trees sequester carbon about. And again, at this point, I had been researching wild animals for a long, long time. So, you know, my head was in the wildlife space, but I learned about how trees suck up carbon and how when you chop them down, all the carbon gets released. And I remember going home and talking to my roommates who were, you know, people of color in different fields and saying, like, did you guys know this? You know, how, like, trees give us oxygen and, like, suck up carbon like, they store it, actually. And, like, that's how, you know, and I was just, like, geeking out about it, and no one knew that, and no one had ever heard anyone say it that simply, right? Like, the trees, like, suck it up and store it, but then it gets released if you cut the tree down. And I remember I, like, the next day I walked over to the public library and I just said to them, I was like, hey, I don't know if this is weird, but, like, I just learned a lot about climate change, and I think people should know this because it's less complicated than we've all been led to believe. Actually, could I do a presentation at the library just for whoever wants to hear it about climate change? And, like, what I just learned in class, you know, the librarians were kind of like, whatever. Like, do whatever you want, you know? Like, we do not care about you or what you're saying. But, yeah, you know, you could have that room in the back and, you know, like, bring your own computer and, you know, I put flyers up and stuff, and I ended up hosting an event at the public library about climate change. And no one came. Like, my roommates came. There's probably four people. And I, like, sat in the front with and did a PowerPoint and talked about how trees sequester carbon and how if we chop down a bunch of trees, it emits it, and that changes know the atmosphere, and that's how climate change worked, and no one was there. But I just thought to myself, like, this is. Science is way easier than we're led to believe, you know? And, you know, and so I guess, like, it's interesting because these days, people see a lot of success, right? Like, they see me maybe giving a talk to hundreds or thousands of people or being on a tv show that millions of people are watching. But for a long, long time, like, for 15 years, I was giving presentations in libraries where no one came. But I just thought, like, hey, it's actually not so hard. We can actually boil it down. And again, I come from a very urban family, but a very supportive family. So I was never allowed to go spend three months camping and studying bears and then come back home and not talk about it, right? So, you know, every Thanksgiving, every Christmas, every family gathering, it would be like, all eyes on ray, like, tell us about this crazy life you're living. And, like, what does it mean? So just because of who I am and where I come from, translating complex science into just, you know, plain English has been something that I've always done because it's been required of me, and it's been important to me. You know, I was kind of like, I don't want to be the only, like, millennial black girl in my group who understands wildlife ecology. That doesn't make sense. Like, if I'm going to go through this rigorous learning process, then all of y'all are going to learn it.
And it's. It's been great. It's been really, really great. And I think that it gave me this informal training in communications, right? It allowed me to just, like, practice when I didn't even realize I was practicing, because I'm, like, putting on makeup to go to the club with my friends, but I'm telling them about, you know, this. This topic or.
And so it built up over time. But, you know, I never lost the dream of hosting, you know, of hosting a nature show. Like, even when I found science. And that was so purposeful for me, you know, I always knew, like, but I do want to do this on a massive scale. I don't want to be alone in the library, like, basement, you know, forever. Like, I do want more people to hear this, to understand, to be empowered, and to come into leadership. Right? Because it's like, it's mission critical. We gotta save this planet. So I think we need some more people on board.
And so after I finished grad school and was kind of in my postdoc, I really started pitching myself. I started networking to meet people in the entertainment industry, people who run those big networks that have a lot of wildlife programming. I started having meetings, and I'd pitch myself, and they would always go really well because people would say, like, whoa, you actually do this in real life? You know, it's not, like, on set, you know, but I would get rejected. I would always get rejected, and it would be because of my blackness, my femininity, you know, the intersections of my identity. And I even had a network executive say, like, hey, you're the real deal. Like, it's. I can't believe I'm meeting someone like you. This is awesome. But you'll never host a nature show. You're not a white guy with a beard. You got to look at, who are these hosts? And, like, you, you know, you. I think he suggested that I do something like host a game show. You know, he was like, you know, you've got the look. Like, you can host it. You could be like, a black vanna white. Like, you could, like, host a game show, but, like, it'll. You'll never do, like, a nature show. And listen. This was the executive of a network that made nature shows, right? So if he was gonna look me in my eye, this happened in 2017. If he was gonna look me in my eye and reject me, I realized I was like, I can't do this. I actually can't. I cannot be enough for these shows. Like, I have a bachelor's degree, two master's degrees, a PhD, a postdoc international wildlife research.
I'm a professor. There's nothing more I can do except eliminate systemic racism.
That's the barrier at this point.
I'm like, there is no nature show host that I have ever been aware of who has a PhD in wildlife ecology. I am bringing my a game again. I always want people to know that. They see me on tv. They see me hosting mutual Volmaha's wild kingdom, this iconic show that inspired me as a kid. And I don't want them to think that I just wished it. And it happened. Society changed, right? Like, society changed. It wasn't me. I have been the same me, you know, for, like, 20 years. And it wasn't until last year this time that I signed a contract to host this show. You know, the people who are in charge of the decisions behind Wild Kingdom are different people than the ones I've interacted with throughout my life. They're people who believe in progress. They believe in changing the face of these narratives. They believe in fusing the old with the new.
It was them, right? And so I have to offer so much. I mean, you know, I just. I love my experience on Wild Kingdom tremendously, but I also love the people behind it so much because they made a decision. I didn't apply. Like, I didn't. Like, there wasn't. There was. There was not a job application out there, like, host Wild Kingdom. I didn't apply. You know, there was no audition. You know, it was not like that. They somehow got word of me, evaluated me. However, they evaluated me, and invited me to be a part of that group. And I'm very grateful. I'm very relieved that now there's at least one example of a woman of color hosting a wildlife show on network television. I think it's going to be many more, and I'm really excited for how this will impact people who watched. Now, anyone of any background, even little british or australian boys, will say, I know that any kind of person can be involved in wildlife conservation, can host one of these shows, can be a leader in the environmental field, and I think it's going to be so empowering. And we need young people to be empowered in this space. Cause we need some help.
[00:49:49] Speaker A: Oh, that just gave me chills. That was such a beautiful story. Oh my gosh. Oh, Ray, you are just a phenomenal person and I am just so grateful to know you and meet you and just be a little tiny microphone and your big beautiful voice and platform that you already have. But before I let you go, I want just where can somebody find you? Find your beautiful book?
Oh, girl, I read the whole thing. There's so many tabs in here, it's ridiculous. I was like, what do I not ask her? Because I want to ask her all the things. But yeah, where can somebody find you? Online and on tv?
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Gosh. Well, you know, I really think social media can just be this awesome space, you know? Again, social media is plagued with problems, but there's a lot of gold on there, you know, in particular, wildlife content. So social is a great place to find me. I am at Rae wingrant on all platforms. R a e w y n g r A N t. Even TikTok, even, you know, every so often, every so often I'll make a little TikTok and you can find me on my website, raewingrant.com. and most importantly, you can find me every Saturday morning on NBC. Check your local listings for times and you'll see me hosting. Co hosting, I should say mutual of Omaha's wild, protecting the wild. And I would love for anyone listening to tune in.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I'll have all of those links in the show notes, everybody. So you could just head on over to rewildology.com and I'll have them all listed there. But Ray, thank you for being you and for continuing with the perseverance writing this amazing book. That definitely inspired me a lot. There was even a few times I even teared up a little bit relating to your story. So thanks again. Thank you for everything, Brooke.
[00:51:46] Speaker B: I appreciate it. This was an awesome interview. So thank you. Also.
[00:51:52] Speaker A: Thank you for joining me on this wild adventure today. I hope you've been inspired by the incredible stories, insights and knowledge shared in this episode. To learn more about what you heard, be sure to check out the show
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This is Brooke signing off. Remember, together we will rewild the planet.
